one of the threads discussing the confession about widespread cheating is here. i recall there were multiple threads that discussed it at the time.

Posted by the0nlyis on 10/28/2015 8:14:00 PM (view original):
ah my bad I knew he was options/acn didn't know girt but I knew it was another one with 2 accounts.  That just means the conference had 1 more great coach.

Would Marshall in rupp be considered as best D1 mid-major in HD?  The only other schools I can think that come anywhere near them are maybe dsrnell's Texas Southern in Smith, they are worse baseline, but haven't broken through to a NC.

I know there's Utah/Zaga/St. John's/Proivdence I know Utah/Zaga are technically midmajors, and I don't think either of those have a world where they are as dominant as Marshall was.

In this era of HD I think that run at Marshall is probably the best.  I know lostmyth had some great St. Bonaventure teams, but I'm not sure where that was in relation to the recruit generation change that nerfed mid-majors (or if you really consider the A-10 a mid-major conference).

Posted by sullytoo on 10/30/2015 12:12:00 PM (view original):
one of the threads discussing the confession about widespread cheating is here. i recall there were multiple threads that discussed it at the time.

So it was a thread started by tannermcc that was deleted?  Do you know any of his aliases, because he's never coached in the Allen ACC under that name.  So another conference may have been doing it, but it wasn't the best.

here is the reference to the entire allen-acc being warned about collusion during recruiting. (the entire thread focuses on accusations against girt, which i think everyone except the accuser agreed, were unfounded.)

you'd have to ask him what his alt id in the conference was.

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/30/2015 1:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sullytoo on 10/29/2015 1:40:00 PM (view original):
my understanding is that acc allen was built on the worst collusion this game has ever suffered...the coaches went so far as to hold a draft of available recruits where each coach would pick which recruits he wanted to avoid any battles within the conference. its hard to imagine that despite rl years having passed, that the conference doesn't still benefit immensely from the advantage that was built over rl years of cheating. so, while everyone heralds that conference as the G.O.A.T., let's all go back and add some asterisks because the success is in large part due to that conference being on steroids. 

what is that understanding based on? i've never coached in that world, but there are some pretty respectable guys who rolled through there. its hard for me to believe cheating was such widespread, but i have been wrong about people before. that said, i've never heard anyone insinuate foul play there in any way, prior to this. plus, i would have to imagine with the "celebrity" of that conference, it would be pretty hard to pull off such a broad long term cheating scheme, without folks noticing. 

How do you reconcile "its hard for me to believe cheating was such widespread..." with this.

edited to create hyperlink. and to add "you".

Posted by sullytoo on 10/30/2015 12:23:00 PM (view original):
you'd have to ask him what his alt id in the conference was.

He didn't have one .... he wasn't in the conference. EVER!

An old thread about what happen 5 years ago in another world, and some sour grapes really don't mean much.

Posted by jtt8355 on 10/30/2015 3:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/30/2015 1:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sullytoo on 10/29/2015 1:40:00 PM (view original):
my understanding is that acc allen was built on the worst collusion this game has ever suffered...the coaches went so far as to hold a draft of available recruits where each coach would pick which recruits he wanted to avoid any battles within the conference. its hard to imagine that despite rl years having passed, that the conference doesn't still benefit immensely from the advantage that was built over rl years of cheating. so, while everyone heralds that conference as the G.O.A.T., let's all go back and add some asterisks because the success is in large part due to that conference being on steroids. 

what is that understanding based on? i've never coached in that world, but there are some pretty respectable guys who rolled through there. its hard for me to believe cheating was such widespread, but i have been wrong about people before. that said, i've never heard anyone insinuate foul play there in any way, prior to this. plus, i would have to imagine with the "celebrity" of that conference, it would be pretty hard to pull off such a broad long term cheating scheme, without folks noticing. 

How do you reconcile "its hard for me to believe cheating was such widespread..." with this.

edited to create hyperlink. and to add "you".

tanner was talking about stuff that happened even before my time - at least, as i understand it. OR has told me all about the old time drafts, i mean, i am definitely aware that stuff happened. but i thought in the modern era, after admin stated such activities were cheating, there were no mass cheating rings. i know individuals do it, ive been approached by a number of them (well, i was, before people knew me), and i know of other isolated cheating incidents, more than i'd like. but that is different from a conference featuring some of the most well respecting coaches in the game, just in the last few years, having cheating on a mass scale.

i do get your point, but i also hope the 5+ years between the incidents makes a difference. 

Posted by sullytoo on 10/30/2015 12:06:00 PM (view original):
acn: my other id is jtt8355. i don't play D1, so i really have no incentive to bring this up, except that i've seen it brought up multiple times in the forums over the years. the most damning of which happened not too long ago...one of the long time coaches came back to HD and posted a late night confession. he deleted is by morning but several of us - myself included - saw the confession. there are also other threads confirming that admin sent out a conference-wide warning against collusion to the then coaches in the conference. i'll try finding mentions of both and posting links. 

tanner was a different deal, that was a different conf in a different period of time, im pretty sure...

Posted by sullytoo on 10/30/2015 12:21:00 PM (view original):
here is the reference to the entire allen-acc being warned about collusion during recruiting. (the entire thread focuses on accusations against girt, which i think everyone except the accuser agreed, were unfounded.)

interesting. i vaguely remember that thread, although honestly i wasn't sure i had seen it until 8 pages in when i read my own post.

one time in tark, the entire big east conference was warned for collusion. it was absurd - someone reported them, it was like, over one coach playing sets he didn't practice to evaluate the impact IQ, and the conference was discussing it, or something. someone suggested they were throwing games so seble warned the entire conference. there was definitely nothing fishy and the coaches in question were among the most respectable dudes in the game, i was watching it play out in real time. so its hard to really put a ton of stock in the conference being warned, without knowing more.

i do know a handful of guys from the ACC-allen though who i respect quite a bit, which is why i find the scale of cheating being alluded to in this thread, hard to believe. i wouldn't rule out some incidents, or a general discussion or two on the CC over time about not fighting in conference. hell, i remember once my conference being accused of cheating because of a CC post i made in response to some question or something, about my own personal views about battling in CC (i was pretty pro-conference and anti-poaching in conference). it wasn't like, a hard accusation of cheating, more of a soft one, but still. in reality, we were a very competitive bunch, we wanted to be the best conference in all of d2 (and we were), and had fierce rivalries within the conference. we had a number of battles in terms of first cycle multiple coach stuff, but very little poaching, and generally nobody was stupid enough to fight a battle they wouldn't win - so few were "all in" battles. its partly because of that experience i am reluctant to read too much into lack of battles, but d1 is definitely a totally different animal, way more big battles in d1 as there should be. still, i've definitely had symbiotic relationships with teams that developed over time, after a few battles hurt us both and we were both looking at the situation trying not to repeat. i think its impossible to say a conf is colluding because they don't have a ton of big time battles, but if a conf has that many guys in that small of an area, without logical boundaries, it is roughly impossible to have nobody show up together in the first cycle. i think thats the only way to really know cheating is going on, from an outside view.

I know we've been reprimanded once or twice about chatter on the coaches corner during recruiting, that may have been one of the times that jslotman referenced in that thread - but it certainly wasn't something on the level of what is being tossed about here, since there was nothing done to anyone in conference, and if something significant had happened I'm sure there would have been more than one post comprising one sentence.

Most of the accusations stem from the idea that we don't have huge inter-conference battles (although the most I've ever spent in any battle anywhere was just over $100k to beat aporter at VA Tech). I have absolutely showed up the first cycle on the same recruit as UNC, NC State, Clemson, and both VA schools. Maybe Wake in the early years, but they've beenslightly lower in prestige for a while, but if you've been in the same conference for 15+ seasons with somebody and you can't tell how they're going recruit and prioritize you just aren't paying attention. And again, if you've got the money we have, it is just as easy to not battle a conference mate and go a bit further away.