Posted by kneeneighbor on 12/12/2018 3:25:00 PM (view original):
I had developed an idea that was similar to College where teams that win gain more "recruiting points" and then those points are spent auction style to add to your roster the following year. Also had some things in place where you could only have a player for 4 years (5 with a red shirt) and then he graduated. There was some randomnees to it to account for a player not living up to potential. I think I posted it once 2 or 3 years ago and no one seemed interested.

That sounds like the first progressive I ever played in, the Contract Draft League. It was a blast. Nihilisticgp was the first commish I remember, but he disappeared and epup1977 ran it later. I think toddleduc (and maybe others) ran a subsequent version. I think there was a rookie draft similar to most leagues, where worst teams get the highest picks. But there was a limit (7 seasons?) on contract length, and players went into free agency when their contracts expired. Free agent credits were based on wins. There were a few rounds of bidding on the free agents. That was probably a lot of work for the commish, but loads of fun. Free agent contracts were limited to five seasons, and were based on how many credits were spent. If you bid a lot on a player and won him, he automatically had a 5-year contract, and couldn't be cut early if his last seasons were bad. If you lucked into winning a player with a cheap bid, his contract would be short.

Posted by contrarian23 on 12/12/2018 7:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by marcstuart on 12/12/2018 3:04:00 PM (view original):
Gonole's WESPL progressive has solved the tanking problem. Current team salary + next season (before the draft) keepers' salary is penalized. Wins are rewarded. He's worked out a formula which encourages winning while spending the least amount possible on payroll. We're 95 games in and will have an opening next season. Minimum win floor and minimum payrolls are established so you really can't tank.

This is another great league that I was in for many years.

I can't remember if I was in this one, but one way to NOT REWARD tanking in a progressive (you really can't penalize it, because the tanker will just leave) is to base the draft on the keeper salary. Whoever returns with the lowest payroll, gets the top pick, REGARDLESS of the previous season.

It leads to some interesting keeper strategies when a HOF-level player is coming up next season. Do you waive that good, but not great pitcher to lower your salary in the hopes that you lower it below everyone else ? After all,even if the HOFer gets picked, you might get that guy back if you want him...

Posted by dino27 on 2/5/2020 11:01:00 PM (view original):
HELLO -

is it time that all progressive leagues uniformly address or adopt rules on using position players as catchers.
it should be outlawed...period......and no one should be able to play a season without at least 575 pa at catcher.


another league...another cheater.....another time.

As someone who has been a league commissioner I want no part of babysitting a rule like that. There's enough to do. Most guys play to win. Those that cheat or don't do a good job of team building don't stick around long. Micromanaging is no fun. Try it if you don't believe me...just because a guy is short of PA at a position doesn't mean he's cheating...poor planning perhaps. Innocent until proven guilty...

You said yourself very few cheat

Commish a league with rules such as you propose. Get back to me on how much you enjoy having to enforce said rules...

it is no wonder people like seeing you depart a league. You are a ******* cancer..

Dino, I have no horse in this race.

But man, I don't see why you said such things about his post. It seemed like a logical argument, not moronic. I believe I've been in a league with you and some forum interaction. I have had little with Dr.Ks but he seems like an honest helpful guy and has answered questions and passed along knowledge.

Let me ask you as a non progressive league player at this time. Why would playing guys out of position be wrong. I do that all the time in my 255s. SS A+/B+ makes a nice player anywhere. Has even caught in an emergency. Never did I feel it was cheating.

This can be tricky. I've seen an owner use Phil Nevin as catcher (during a season when he DID NOT play Catcher ...ie: had no catcher ratings). He was awful. Had a ton of passed balls. Think he threw out 1, maybe 2 guys stealing. He won his division. Won like 95 games.

So there's that.

I left 10 years ago because of cheating in Live but was also fed up with the other stuff in sim leagues, it stopped being fun, didn't miss it at all, had completely forgotten about WIS. I'm not here to make a living I just want it to be fair. I came back last year to see how things are and was glad to see Live is gone and the other things are not quite as bad as they used to be. But the damage is done, I have no doubt that it hurt WIS in the early years and most never came back.

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2020 10:30:00 AM (view original):
thats where im coming from.
people of bad character are everywhere.
and then they have their enablers - the people who oppose improvement just to be a jerk.

What you say about Jerks and such is very true. But DoctorK'z has been around here and is well respected. Not a guy you should label as a moronic jerk. It reflects worse on you than him.

Would you go into a deep red state and some small town back woods red neck bar and start bad mouthing Donald Trump? I honestly dislike him very much but if I was in that place I'd try to something nice about him then change the conversation.

I just can't say nice things about people I think are horrid ********.
It's unfortunate, but true.

Dino, Doc HAS commished Progressives.
He started one of the 2 Progressives I'm in, actually the Progressive with my favorite set-up/Rules.
He no longer does, however commish in that league.
I think he just left the league entirely last off season.

I suspect Doc just didn't grasp what you were claiming happened. He's in Hawaii, with a woman who dances........I probably wouldn't have grasped your point either, under those terms.

Anyways, I'm curious.........How the heck did folks Cheat in LIVE play??
I always wanted to try LIVE (could never figure out how to make it work) BECAUSE I figured that it would be the most realistic form of this WIS SIM thingee.
Now, of course, it doesn't even function.
I wish it did, but HOW the heck did folks cheat at that.

And yes, sad but true Dino, you are right.
Cheaters are everywhere.
Even in the WH!

you could cheat in live games a couple ways.

one was the fake substitution. in the interface if you clicked substitute, a message would come up saying "06gsp is making a substitution". if you then decided not to make a change, there was no warning to the other owner and the game would continue. an unscrupulous person could use this to get you to leave a tired pitcher in longer than you otherwise would have.

the other was there was a glitch in live where squeeze bunting with pitchers worked an extremely high percent of the time, even if the defense had the infield in, so there was a gentlemen's agreement not to do it. some people did it anyway.

i'm sure there were others,

too bad!! The concept of live interfacing with this SIM on every PA seems really cool, if quite time consuming!

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2020 10:08:00 AM (view original):
im only trying to improve fair play.
im the great guy.

There's no version of this in which the guy spewing insults is "the great guy."

He can be right. But he can't be great.

DoctorKz and Dino27, you are both people I like and respect here and I believe that many others on this site would say the same about both of you.

This got REALLY personal and mean-spirited, REALLY quickly, just escalated out of nowhere.

This site, as I have often in the past argued, is a common good, a collective space that is not JUST a game that we can, well GAME for our own advantage, as you are both, and indeed everyone who has commented on this thread, are in agreement on, but is something whose existence we all benefit from. That is the best reason NOT to cheat, though, as we know, not everyone sees it that way.

Similarly, this Forum is a common good, a collective space that is not just here for us to express ourselves (I know, I do too and probably cross lines from time to time), but whose maintenance is and should be important to us all as A COMMUNITY.

Community, and with everything going on in America right now, I am more convinced than ever of this, IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OPINION, PERSPECTIVE, POINT OF VIEW OR IDEOLOGY. We need to start remembering that.

You may hate your neighbor's religion, politics, lifestyle, but if your house catches fire, or robbers come to it in the night, that neighbor is your first line of defense, the one with the fire hose to turn on the fire before the Firefighters can get there, the one to call the police to let them know about the break-in, the one to keep an eye on your kids if they are doing something they should not when you are at work or away.

We have forgotten that. We want to win arguments now. That is all we want. I do it too or have done it, but I am trying to remember now.

You both want to be here. We all want you both to be here. We want this site to work, to be successful, to be a good place. Even when we were all at our most fed-up with ownerships that cared nothing for the site, WE - the users - were the site's defenders, its real friends.

So, argue yes over ideas, points, legitimate differences. But remember that you are neighbors. And as the Neighborhood committee, we would like you to tone down the personal attacks please. Not as a criticism of either of you, or of both of you, but as a welcoming back to the embrace of the neighborhood, as a place where you have friends, and belong.

No doubt. Was just pointing it out .