Posted by dedelman on 4/18/2019 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brianp87 on 4/18/2019 12:00:00 PM (view original):
I personally want 85 + in each def category. In this guys case the lack of glove is no where near offsetted by his hitting. Also the fact that he needs other better players at positions this guy can play id play him there and find a cheap def ss as they are more available then cf,2nd and 3rd baseman. But again this is just my opinion. This is what I would do. If he had studs at 3rd, cf and 2nd then it MAY be different but that is not the case.

That's a personal preference, and it's by definition OK, it's yours-- but what pjf and I are saying is that just defensively, even before we talk about the bat, his glove is offset by his cannon of an arm. If he moved 7 AS points to glove he'd meet your criteria-- but he wouldn't be a meaningfully better defensive SS.

So you think his arm strength makes up for his glove?

Posted by brianp87 on 4/18/2019 2:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dedelman on 4/18/2019 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brianp87 on 4/18/2019 12:00:00 PM (view original):
I personally want 85 + in each def category. In this guys case the lack of glove is no where near offsetted by his hitting. Also the fact that he needs other better players at positions this guy can play id play him there and find a cheap def ss as they are more available then cf,2nd and 3rd baseman. But again this is just my opinion. This is what I would do. If he had studs at 3rd, cf and 2nd then it MAY be different but that is not the case.

That's a personal preference, and it's by definition OK, it's yours-- but what pjf and I are saying is that just defensively, even before we talk about the bat, his glove is offset by his cannon of an arm. If he moved 7 AS points to glove he'd meet your criteria-- but he wouldn't be a meaningfully better defensive SS.

So you think his arm strength makes up for his glove?

In the one of my worlds that has a decent sample size for this season, an average starting SS projects to about a .972 fielding pct, and to have about 10-12 more (+) plays than (-) plays. Compared to that, over 1400 innings at SS this guy projects to be about 8 (+) plays better (that is, to make about 18-20 more (+) plays than (-) plays) and to make about 8 more errors.

In the same world I used for the stats, the top 32 SS in inning played at SS average the following ratings: 86 range, 84 glove, 90 AS, 87 AA. Our guy has: 89 range, 80 glove, 97 AS, 87 AA.

I feel confident that the 80 glove is responsible for the 8 extra errors compared to his peer group. He also probably gets his 8 extra (+) plays from a combination of his 89 range (3 points higher than league average) and 97 AS (7 points higher than league average).

I understand this is a little like comparing Fuji apples and Granny Smith apples, since it's not his world. but it's probably close enough... basically, I think his AS and, to a lesser extent, his range compensate for his glove. It's not 1 to 1-- it takes about 10 points total of range and AS to compensate for 4 points of glove-- but for this guy, they compensate.

Im not math wiz nor am I even willing to take the time to calculate it out. I will say that I would never play that guy at ss unless I had studs at 3rd,cf and 2nd. To me his ops does not overcome his def enough for me personally. If the guy wants to win championships then that's all I can say.

The OP asked about where to bat him in the lineup, not whether he was a legit SS. OP, I'd put him below anyone that can actually get on-base but above any defensive players that are zeros with the bat.

True.

Posted by rdierkers on 4/18/2019 3:21:00 PM (view original):
The OP asked about where to bat him in the lineup, not whether he was a legit SS. OP, I'd put him below anyone that can actually get on-base but above any defensive players that are zeros with the bat.

Much appreciated!