Posted by darnoc29099 on 4/18/2020 2:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/18/2020 12:54:00 PM (view original):
this is not a glitch. the glitch has been fixed - the glitch was that these players can never improve. your guy did improve, at a rate higher than his start of fr season rate (which was the problem in the old game). this is expected behavior IMO and has to be taken into account in recruiting. we all know stamina is the offseason bear, always has been - just got to adjust!

I'm confused here, gil. When the player was recruited his ST was 81 ( and red). When he graduated it was 72 (and black). Every season his ST declined. His ATH and SP improved all 4 seasons, so there were plenty of minutes dumped into conditioning. Over the course of his career he LOST 9 points of ST despite an appropriately set practice plan. There is definitely something wrong here.

also note before the glitch fix, that guy would have gained 0 points in the regular season - he gained 3. so the glitch fix took care of 3 - it was -9, instead of -12

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/18/2020 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 4/18/2020 2:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/18/2020 12:54:00 PM (view original):
this is not a glitch. the glitch has been fixed - the glitch was that these players can never improve. your guy did improve, at a rate higher than his start of fr season rate (which was the problem in the old game). this is expected behavior IMO and has to be taken into account in recruiting. we all know stamina is the offseason bear, always has been - just got to adjust!

I'm confused here, gil. When the player was recruited his ST was 81 ( and red). When he graduated it was 72 (and black). Every season his ST declined. His ATH and SP improved all 4 seasons, so there were plenty of minutes dumped into conditioning. Over the course of his career he LOST 9 points of ST despite an appropriately set practice plan. There is definitely something wrong here.

also note before the glitch fix, that guy would have gained 0 points in the regular season - he gained 3. so the glitch fix took care of 3 - it was -9, instead of -12

Red ST still goes backwards for a career. Something is wrong. Green doesn't, blue doesn't, black doesn't, and orange doesn't. Only red. -9 isn't better than -12. It's the same..... backwards

(Let's assume we're dealing with 50 WE player. Of course if the WE is 10 or 20 it will. But with a 50 WE it should not be this way).

i mean, i agree with you guys that it sucks. im just saying, there was actually a glitch with this specific problem and its resolved... so what is left is like, something that sucks, i guess? its always annoyed me how much stamina drops in the off season. i wish they'd offset that by letting you grow more in the regular season at least when close to the caps.

but on the other hand, stamina has worked this way forever - its extremely WE dependent, and recruits with red/yellow sta and low WE are dubious by nature. i generally plan on those guys losing several, maybe even 5, over their career. its rare to see -9 like this kinda cherry picked case, but its not rare at all for these types to do -6 or a bit worse, so i guess its not super shocking. i guess im saying 3 things - i agree it sucks - the actual glitch has been fixed (not sure everyone sort of knows that) - and also you should expect low potential stamina to go negative in this game, and even with good work ethic, if its red.

Yellow doesn't go backwards at all over a career and red goes a lot. It's not a glitch I guess, it's an absurd feature. You can say that about the wall of shame forum loophole as well.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 4/18/2020 6:47:00 PM (view original):
Yellow doesn't go backwards at all over a career and red goes a lot. It's not a glitch I guess, it's an absurd feature. You can say that about the wall of shame forum loophole as well.

i hear ya, i don't like it either. its just that stamina deliberately drops a lot in the off season relative to every other attribute, and so i'm saying its deliberate not a bug. perhaps the consequence is somewhat unintended - after all, in the beginning of the game, you only had red-yellow type scenarios when you were already 95 rated. so it wasn't bad like this until potential came out - but its been bad like this, ever since then.

i just would say like, that the off-season improvement penalty on stamina should be softened... not that its a glitch. i guess calling it a glitch seems absurd from this standpoint when it is clearly intentional. i assumed folks were calling it a glitch because there was a glitch specifically tied to red stamina not recovering - which is why i am kinda hung up on this glitch thing - but maybe i was off-base on that from the start? i suppose the most important thing is, i agree with you guys that it shouldn't be that bad.

the other thing is - do people even agree the off season improvement is the problem? i suppose i always fast forward to solutions. to me, its clear the cause here - but changing that cause doesn't only impact this scenario in question. it would impact sta for guys who start green or blue, too. that -3 or so penalty you can expect every year, with bad work ethic - while it sucks, a lot. when you start red - it sucks a lot when you are green sta, too! its just not as noticeable, because you have a better shot at getting those -3 back when you are still far from your cap. but it *really* bites into the growth.

so yeah, what i identify here as the cause is the off-season improvement - i guess i'm unclear if anyone agrees. anyway, there's a couple ways to skin that, that i can think of, but perhaps others have more? either nixing / softening the off-season penalty, or else, increasing the growth rate of sta when you are closer to the cap (this way it doesn't impact the growth rate for someone who is blue, at least not until much later).

perhaps the reason i am hung on the 'glitch' thing is 'glitch' usually implies a clear solution - fix the glitch. but this is intentional behavior. so whats the proposed solution?

OK, so i sort of feel like this is a lot worse than some 19 WE guy getting shafted in the off season, and shows what im talking - on our ucla team, we returned 7 players. here's the WE and sta change breakdown, sorted by WE -
jr 82WE 87 black -> 83 black (-4)
jr 64WE 84 black -> 80 black (-4)
jr 61WE 70 yellow -> 71 yellow (+1)
jr 52WE 81 yellow -> 81 yellow (0)
sr 50WE 86 black -> 82 black (-4)
so 45WE 74 black -> 70 black (-4)
so 37WE 76 black -> 72 black (-4)

perhaps i need to pay more attention, because i do not recall such decent WE guys getting shafted so hard - perhaps its just bad luck, but 5/7 guys go -4, including the 82 WE guy? i dont know, seems like a lot. obviously this offseason stuff is what is driving the stamina growth issues, because it grows just fine in the regular season. i don't think the fact that the two yellow guys were fine and the black guys all got shafted is typical, well, at least in this one context (ill grant that black guys get shafted in all other contexts). i think that is random but now will have to check a couple more teams...

anyway i'd definitely like to see that offseason stamina crushing halved or so for all levels, not just red/yellows.

Do you it is intended that someone who starts at yellow ST who immediately turns red ST in exhibition ends their career in red ST, but someone who starts at red ST ends their career in black?

Posted by Sportsbulls on 4/19/2020 4:48:00 PM (view original):
Do you it is intended that someone who starts at yellow ST who immediately turns red ST in exhibition ends their career in red ST, but someone who starts at red ST ends their career in black?

i'm not sure i'm following - are you implying a guy who starts red is more likely to end black than a guy who starts yellow? if that is what you are saying, i guess i don't think that is true anymore.

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/19/2020 5:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 4/19/2020 4:48:00 PM (view original):
Do you it is intended that someone who starts at yellow ST who immediately turns red ST in exhibition ends their career in red ST, but someone who starts at red ST ends their career in black?

i'm not sure i'm following - are you implying a guy who starts red is more likely to end black than a guy who starts yellow? if that is what you are saying, i guess i don't think that is true anymore.

I believe that is what they are saying. I also had that with other sports however its a dark line to consider.

Man just found out I got fall workouts and a session of Summer workouts to do before my next club is in. I am actually working on stamina increases by 32 years old. I am still going to be hanging around but my workouts beat 1/3rd of people who does not participate in annual workouts however has a time sheet.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=4507664

Hoops Dynasty – College Basketball Sim Games - Orlando Morales - Ratings History - Iba - Hoops Dynasty Basketball | WhatIfSports

ST started 85 and red
WE stared 44 and steadily increased
ST lost an average of about 4 points every off season
ST never increased even a single point during any season.
ST now 74 and black late in senior year

this is what is intended?

It shouldn't be that way in a "good gaming world"! But yes that's what this glitch is all about. No fun.

but gil somehow loves how it works. Go figure