20 minutes running slowdown. Hope to keep him in the 17.5-18 range so he doesn't complain.

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/20/2020 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 4/20/2020 9:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/20/2020 1:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 4/19/2020 7:49:00 PM (view original):
If you use fatigue settings, 15 minutes is all I'd do. If you use target minutes..... maybe 20

if you run target minutes while playing press you are doing something seriously wrong :)

Agreed. But if your goal is fulfilling promises, you may end up forced into using it

i disagree - this should never, ever happen. you are better off running 1 or 2 guys on tired than an entire press team on minutes. minutes is not a reasonable option for any press team ever. you could possibly contrive a scenario so disastrous, it makes sense, but i wouldn't be surprised if over the life of HD, since the advent of fatigue, not one of those has occurred yet.

edit: the only reason i am being a dick about it is, i don't think the average coach realizes 1) how bad the average coach is at using minutes and 2) how bad minutes is for high fatigue sets. both are just complete train wreck disasters. a minutes 'expert' would never dare run it on press, its insanity. i mean, to experiment, sure. but for real? not a chance. i shudder at the thought of someone who doesn't know their way through minutes trying it with press. instant -5 wins on the season?

I'm not saying using target minutes is the "right" thing to do.

But there are circumstances where I'd trade some regular season losses, to maintain a stud player on my roster for the remainder of his career. If it's the right move.

Now, I've never actually had to do this, at least not that I can remember. I'm also not saying that this is how every team should be managed. But you bet your *** if I signed my first bigtime player and I'm a .500 team not going anywhere in the post season, I'd throw EVERY game if I had to, in order to keep that stud building block for the future.

Never, ever? I think I used target minutes 20+ times this past season. Fastbreak, press, uptempo every game. Now, I forgot to fill my non conference schedule and my conference is mostly empty so I knew I could get away with it a lot. Obviously I agree with you guys that it's not an optimal strategy and I went back to fatigue for my tougher games and the NT. I just wanted to share my opinion that it's useful for promises and player development and not a total disaster. I use it at times every season with my press team.

Edit: I just realized that I got here from a link in a newer thread and that this discussion is a few weeks old. Oh well, I would love to hear if anyone else does this. Not really arguing any of the points above, I've learned a lot about this game from hearing others' thoughts here. Cheers.

I used target minutes a lot at Abilene Christian in Naismith, 3 titles and a boatload of Elite 8s in there. Not often used in the postseason, but quite often during the regular season, against sims and humans alike. I ran FB/press there. It’s actually pretty straightforward. Just keep your overall minutes quite a bit below the 200 cumulative total, and you’re generally fine; it will act in much the same way as fatigue. It’s a good way to keep promises (you can bump up to pad the minutes against weaker opponents, so you can skimp or switch to fatigue against tough ones).

The risk is that a guy will get into early foul trouble, and the system will overplay him in the second half, or some other wonky outlier outcome resulting in a “fatigue cascade”. I didn’t see that, honestly. But again, I wasn’t playing this against tough postseason rivals by any means. It’s a tool in the toolbox, but not always the right one for the job.

Posted by shaf5576 on 5/12/2020 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Never, ever? I think I used target minutes 20+ times this past season. Fastbreak, press, uptempo every game. Now, I forgot to fill my non conference schedule and my conference is mostly empty so I knew I could get away with it a lot. Obviously I agree with you guys that it's not an optimal strategy and I went back to fatigue for my tougher games and the NT. I just wanted to share my opinion that it's useful for promises and player development and not a total disaster. I use it at times every season with my press team.

Edit: I just realized that I got here from a link in a newer thread and that this discussion is a few weeks old. Oh well, I would love to hear if anyone else does this. Not really arguing any of the points above, I've learned a lot about this game from hearing others' thoughts here. Cheers.

so you are saying a 35-0 national champion caliber team can beat sims while running minutes with fb/press? yeah, i buy that :) but yeah, i get where you are coming from, perhaps total disaster isn't the best way to put it.

that said... i believe in general one could meet those promises while being a more effective team, by running fatigue with non-fairly fresh settings where needed. i suppose its possible with enough promises, particularly if you are the rare bird who promises starts without many minutes, that it might be the lesser of two evils. i mean im skeptical that is a realistic scenario - but i suppose i'd being willing to downgrade never ever to exceedingly rare!

the biggest thing about minutes (outside of people just not knowing how to do it) is how badly it responds to foul/fatigue trouble. this is why i am so against it for fb/pr, although surely you can beat sims with it. i guess ill also say - in the context of the regular season, which is mostly meaningless garbage anyway - its possible 'total disaster' is just out of the range of possibilities and has no place as a term. especially for a good team like yours - its relatively easy with title caliber teams to run completely trash freshman filled lineups and still pull 1, 2, 3 seeds and the like. so im not sure what a total disaster of a regular season would even be for someone with a team like yours.

i guess i'll scale back my comment to - for games that don't matter, minutes with fb/pr is still about the biggest axe you can possibly take to your team, without intentionally trying to sabotage - but in the end, it still doesn't matter that much. playing fb/pr with minutes against real competition or games that matter - that would be a total disaster. not necessarily that every game has to be a total disaster, but your odds of winning especially in a series of games (like the NT) would take a tremendous beating.

Posted by shoe3 on 5/12/2020 5:01:00 PM (view original):
I used target minutes a lot at Abilene Christian in Naismith, 3 titles and a boatload of Elite 8s in there. Not often used in the postseason, but quite often during the regular season, against sims and humans alike. I ran FB/press there. It’s actually pretty straightforward. Just keep your overall minutes quite a bit below the 200 cumulative total, and you’re generally fine; it will act in much the same way as fatigue. It’s a good way to keep promises (you can bump up to pad the minutes against weaker opponents, so you can skimp or switch to fatigue against tough ones).

The risk is that a guy will get into early foul trouble, and the system will overplay him in the second half, or some other wonky outlier outcome resulting in a “fatigue cascade”. I didn’t see that, honestly. But again, I wasn’t playing this against tough postseason rivals by any means. It’s a tool in the toolbox, but not always the right one for the job.

back 2 hours ago when i started typing my post when i got a minute, i was gonna say, i guess if you put everyone on really low minutes you can avoid the severe foul/fatigue problems - but that also is generally giving up a quite a lot. again, i'll concede that 'quite a lot' is still relatively little compared to a top tier team beating up on crap sims and the like.

Posted by topdogggbm on 4/22/2020 4:16:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/20/2020 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 4/20/2020 9:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/20/2020 1:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 4/19/2020 7:49:00 PM (view original):
If you use fatigue settings, 15 minutes is all I'd do. If you use target minutes..... maybe 20

if you run target minutes while playing press you are doing something seriously wrong :)

Agreed. But if your goal is fulfilling promises, you may end up forced into using it

i disagree - this should never, ever happen. you are better off running 1 or 2 guys on tired than an entire press team on minutes. minutes is not a reasonable option for any press team ever. you could possibly contrive a scenario so disastrous, it makes sense, but i wouldn't be surprised if over the life of HD, since the advent of fatigue, not one of those has occurred yet.

edit: the only reason i am being a dick about it is, i don't think the average coach realizes 1) how bad the average coach is at using minutes and 2) how bad minutes is for high fatigue sets. both are just complete train wreck disasters. a minutes 'expert' would never dare run it on press, its insanity. i mean, to experiment, sure. but for real? not a chance. i shudder at the thought of someone who doesn't know their way through minutes trying it with press. instant -5 wins on the season?

I'm not saying using target minutes is the "right" thing to do.

But there are circumstances where I'd trade some regular season losses, to maintain a stud player on my roster for the remainder of his career. If it's the right move.

Now, I've never actually had to do this, at least not that I can remember. I'm also not saying that this is how every team should be managed. But you bet your *** if I signed my first bigtime player and I'm a .500 team not going anywhere in the post season, I'd throw EVERY game if I had to, in order to keep that stud building block for the future.

When you get in the tournament past the first 3 rounds seeds mean nothing.

I have an Illinois team that is objective the most talented team in the country with only 2 other teams (Florida and Minnesota) who I can think can beat me consistently.


Minnesota is in my conference so I have some draw immunity on them, so unless I'm that worried about getting Florida in the S16 in the final four my seed in the NT doesn't really matter. So I promised 4 freshmen 25 minutes and a start, and to make things worse I forgot to play all of my freshmen in the first game.

So I put them on tired, and I have two terrible losses to bad sims. Sad.

Yea, I pretty much agree with everything you're saying gillispie and I was definitely talking about meaningless regular season games. I just wanted to throw it out there that I think it can be useful and with so few human coaches there are a lot of those meaningless games out there for some of us. I didn't really need to do it for promises but I wanted to control everyone's minutes for development. Anyway, thanks for responding. I enjoy hearing what you have to say about it.