If we're simply talking best hitter, I'll go with Gwynn over Bonds because Bonds "clear"ly had help (see what I did there? haha). He only reached 40 Ks in a season once in his entire career, averaging 29 Ks per 162 games.

It all depends on the subjective weight we give to certain accomplishments, though. All of the guys mentioned here are worthy of consideration.

I'm just glad Miggy was a Triple Crown winner in my lifetime. For many, many years I figured I'd never see it happen.

Imagine you join a prog that begins play in 1980 and ends in 2022. You can claim any batter for your team from this period. Who do you pick?

I'd go:

1. Bonds
2. A-Rod
3. Trout

1. Bonds
2. Cabrerra
3. McGwire

This thread makes me think of the ESPN SportsCenter tagline from the steroid era: Chicks dig the longball.

It's sad to me Gwynn doesn't even make some people's top 3 while 'roiders do.

A couple of things I wonder if people realize about Gywnn:

Gwynn faced Greg Maddux 107 times in his career -- more than any other pitcher. He batted .415/.476/.521, and he did not strikeout even once against the four-time Cy Young Award winner and Hall of Famer.

For his career, Gwynn batted .302 with two strikes. That's easily the best mark for any player since numbers were first tracked by count in the mid-1970s. Wade Boggs is second at .262. In 1994, the year he hit .394, Gwynn batted an absurd .397 in two-strike counts.

Posted by DoctorKz on 4/23/2022 8:31:00 PM (view original):
Albert has more doubles, more RBI, more HR, considerably higher WAR, gold gloves, and NOBODY put together a first 10 years of a career that can touch what he did. A 1st ballot HOF by age 30.

But he kept playing after the huge new contract in Anaheim.

There are so many poster boys for contracts to be only short-term, or mostly incentive based....

Posted by jmcraven74 on 4/25/2022 1:30:00 PM (view original):
This thread makes me think of the ESPN SportsCenter tagline from the steroid era: Chicks dig the longball.

It's sad to me Gwynn doesn't even make some people's top 3 while 'roiders do.

A couple of things I wonder if people realize about Gywnn:

Gwynn faced Greg Maddux 107 times in his career -- more than any other pitcher. He batted .415/.476/.521, and he did not strikeout even once against the four-time Cy Young Award winner and Hall of Famer.

For his career, Gwynn batted .302 with two strikes. That's easily the best mark for any player since numbers were first tracked by count in the mid-1970s. Wade Boggs is second at .262. In 1994, the year he hit .394, Gwynn batted an absurd .397 in two-strike counts.

Different KIND of hitter entirely. Control-hitting, never-strike-out, stroke-the-ball-where-it's-pitched kinds of hitters aren't measured on the same scale as hit-the-ball-far, three-true-outcome hitters.... at least partially because it takes at least two of them to score a run, whereas the Bonds/Pujols/Cabrera types can score on their own.

Gwynn wouldn't make my top ten from the era in question. He would probably make the top 20, but I'm not sure.

Terrific hitter. Not in the same league as most of the other names listed in this thread.

Posted by toddcommish on 4/25/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jmcraven74 on 4/25/2022 1:30:00 PM (view original):
This thread makes me think of the ESPN SportsCenter tagline from the steroid era: Chicks dig the longball.

It's sad to me Gwynn doesn't even make some people's top 3 while 'roiders do.

A couple of things I wonder if people realize about Gywnn:

Gwynn faced Greg Maddux 107 times in his career -- more than any other pitcher. He batted .415/.476/.521, and he did not strikeout even once against the four-time Cy Young Award winner and Hall of Famer.

For his career, Gwynn batted .302 with two strikes. That's easily the best mark for any player since numbers were first tracked by count in the mid-1970s. Wade Boggs is second at .262. In 1994, the year he hit .394, Gwynn batted an absurd .397 in two-strike counts.

Different KIND of hitter entirely. Control-hitting, never-strike-out, stroke-the-ball-where-it's-pitched kinds of hitters aren't measured on the same scale as hit-the-ball-far, three-true-outcome hitters.... at least partially because it takes at least two of them to score a run, whereas the Bonds/Pujols/Cabrera types can score on their own.

"Control-hitting, never-strike-out, stroke-the-ball-where-it's-pitched kinds of hitters aren't measured on the same scale as hit-the-ball-far, three-true-outcome hitters...."

Yes, definitely a different kind of hitter vs TTO hitters. Again, everyone has their criteria. Personally, I feel that if a hitter only has TTO to offer, he's a pretty limited batsman. He may be the best TTO hitter of all time, but he's still essentially limited to being a three-trick pony. I can't think of a single TTO hitter I'd put anywhere near this list. Gallo is a TTO hitter; Bonds maybe so after he got on the juice. Pujols and Cabrera were not TTO hitters.

Gwynn's hitting is generally regarded as top 10 or top 20 of all-time. When looking at those lists, few, if any, TTO names appear on them.

Posted by contrarian23 on 4/24/2022 9:32:00 AM (view original):
Cabrera and Pujols are terrific players, outstanding careers.

Neither is in Bonds's league, in my opinion.

Some will choose to eliminate Bonds from consideration - and there's no point in having that argument here. People tend to be pretty intransigent one way or the other.

Not yet mentioned for some reason: Mike Trout. He doesn't have the gaudy career totals yet, but he is in my opinion unquestionably superior to both Pujols and Cabrera. One hopes he's able to shake off last year's injuries and come all the way back. Trout to me is not only the best hitter of the best 40 years - he's the best hitter since Williams, and arguably the best PLAYER since Ruth.

Sorry C23, have to strongly disagree with the comment about Trout being unquestionably superior to Pujols and I really like Trout.

• First 12 Seasons. Albert hit .324 to Trouts .305.
• Albert was only DH 34 games to Trouts 67 so that doesnt play.
• First 12 Seasons Albert was 91 WAR, Trout was 77.

Does Trout play a tougher position? Yes. Is he a better 5 tool player? Yes. But the original question was who was the best hitter and I think it is Albert <PERIOD>. Will Trout have better numbers at end of Career? Not for sure. he is already slipping. He also has to hit 300 more HRs and nearly .300 over the next decade or he will fall behind Alberts .297. Lower average and less HRs means worse hitter.
So no clue how the conclusion or the comment "unquestionably better" can be made. Im a Cardinals fan for sure and watched a lot of Alberts games....and here is also what I would say..

Alberts numbers are better. Also despite Trout not getting the chance, Albert DELIVERED many times in the Post Season. Sure maybe Trout would have if given the chance but Albert DID.

Posted by crazystengel on 4/24/2022 8:53:00 PM (view original):
Imagine you join a prog that begins play in 1980 and ends in 2022. You can claim any batter for your team from this period. Who do you pick?

I'd go:

1. Bonds
2. A-Rod
3. Trout

Of course in WIS, you go w/ Bonds because the BBs are clearly overstated so even though Bonds will miss his power #s, his OBP will be .500+
I have never had great success w/ A-Roid
Have not played enough of the recent years to have a good read on Trout yet.

As for a progressive, depends on if you want someone who was ELITE for 8 years or if you want someone who is around for 20. I have had great luck w/ Eddie Murray, Larry Walker, Albert (dont call me Joey) Bell, Chipper Jones, Tim Raines and Ichiro, Palmiero.

Great Players who seem to suck for me. Tony Gwynn, Rickey Henderson, Bagwell, Robbie Alomar, Andre Dawson.

Posted by contrarian23 on 4/24/2022 9:32:00 AM (view original):
Cabrera and Pujols are terrific players, outstanding careers.

Neither is in Bonds's league, in my opinion.

Some will choose to eliminate Bonds from consideration - and there's no point in having that argument here. People tend to be pretty intransigent one way or the other.

Not yet mentioned for some reason: Mike Trout. He doesn't have the gaudy career totals yet, but he is in my opinion unquestionably superior to both Pujols and Cabrera. One hopes he's able to shake off last year's injuries and come all the way back. Trout to me is not only the best hitter of the best 40 years - he's the best hitter since Williams, and arguably the best PLAYER since Ruth.

Trout better than Willie Mays? I would put him just a little behind Willlie.

Posted by italyprof on 4/26/2022 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by contrarian23 on 4/24/2022 9:32:00 AM (view original):
Cabrera and Pujols are terrific players, outstanding careers.

Neither is in Bonds's league, in my opinion.

Some will choose to eliminate Bonds from consideration - and there's no point in having that argument here. People tend to be pretty intransigent one way or the other.

Not yet mentioned for some reason: Mike Trout. He doesn't have the gaudy career totals yet, but he is in my opinion unquestionably superior to both Pujols and Cabrera. One hopes he's able to shake off last year's injuries and come all the way back. Trout to me is not only the best hitter of the best 40 years - he's the best hitter since Williams, and arguably the best PLAYER since Ruth.

Trout better than Willie Mays? I would put him just a little behind Willlie.

Also, best hitter since Williams? Better than Henry Aaron? Again, in the same league I agree, but a little lower.

Posted by jmcraven74 on 4/25/2022 1:30:00 PM (view original):
This thread makes me think of the ESPN SportsCenter tagline from the steroid era: Chicks dig the longball.

It's sad to me Gwynn doesn't even make some people's top 3 while 'roiders do.

A couple of things I wonder if people realize about Gywnn:

Gwynn faced Greg Maddux 107 times in his career -- more than any other pitcher. He batted .415/.476/.521, and he did not strikeout even once against the four-time Cy Young Award winner and Hall of Famer.

For his career, Gwynn batted .302 with two strikes. That's easily the best mark for any player since numbers were first tracked by count in the mid-1970s. Wade Boggs is second at .262. In 1994, the year he hit .394, Gwynn batted an absurd .397 in two-strike counts.

I mentioned Gwynn and Boggs.

Picking Albert's "first 12 seasons" and comparing them to Trout's allows you to do the following:
-- Cut things off exactly when Pujols's career went downhill; he had a couple of decent seasons after that, but nothing that could be considered great, or even (IMO) very good
-- Include FOUR partial seasons for Trout, including his first season, when he was a late season call-up at 19, the strike-shortened 2020, the in-progress 2022. If you want to ding Trout for his 2021 injury, that's fine. But to include the other 3 in comparison to full Pujols seasons is just silly.

Trout in those 12 seasons (to date) accumulate those 77 WAR in 1313 games; Pujols accumulated his 91 WAR in 1859 games. 20% more WAR in 42% more games? Yeah, I'll stick with the original conclusion. Trout has been MUCH more productive than the second greatest hitter of the 21st century.