screwing power teams! Topic

swamphawk22
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Quote: Originally Posted By bighead34 on 12/08/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 12/08/2009

People keep saying that. Before this update it wasnt true. I have multiple guys who had good offensive seasons with that type of ratings.

Patrick Greene 43-95-46-47-32 hit 60-59-45-61 HRs the last 4 years.

Kelvin Purcell 17-94-48-42-47 avaraged about .255 with 28 HRs the last 3 years

Had guys do well in this profile every year.

i'll repeat this for a 3rd time, but won't expect swamp to actually address it as it is clear he has no interest in truth, but only proving he's right (even though he just keeps proving how wrong he is)

swamp, if these players were performing so well, how come your offense has been putrid (never finishing higher than 21st in runs scored and usually worse than that)?

the answer is that you looked at HRs and saw a guy hitting 60 and assumed he was good, even though he wasn't...with the engine change your "good" players lost their only attribute of any worth and now even you can tell they aren't good...you're upset, i get it, we all do, but the idea you are somehow getting screwed is laughable

I am an NL team in a pitchers park, I should have a worse offense than most.

Are you really going to stand on the "The guy with 60 HRs really isnt good"?
12/8/2009 10:51 PM
tropicana
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I am. I think that most people will.
12/9/2009 12:47 AM
eayappert
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Data in support of Trop's contention:

Looked at Season 13, when Swamp's favorite player Patrick Greene hit 62 HRs, and one crude measure of productivity which is available in the regular stat files - Runs Created / 27 Outs

Greene was at 5.16 RC / 27

3 other regulars (>300 ABs) guys on Wichita / LV were higher than Green; 5 were below

I found 5 other teams that played in strong pitchers parks. here are the number of regulars on those 5 teams with RC/27 > Greene's 5.16, and those < 5.16 RC/27:

St Louis 5 players > 5.16; 6 players < 5.16
San Antonio 9 players > 5.16 ; 3 players < 5.16
San Diego 5 players above; 7 players below
Memphis 7 players above; 3 below
Portland 5 players above; 3 below


That adds up to 34 players > 5.16; and 27 players < 5.16

So, by this crude measure, and 10 minutes worth of analysis, you could conclude that Patrick Greene, was in the 42% percentile for RC/27 outs, which is pretty mediocre, even while hitting 62 HRs.

+1 for trop.

12/9/2009 3:31 AM
robproc
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Quote: Originally Posted By firemanrob on 12/08/2009
Quote: Originally posted by tropicana on 12/08/2009
Just because the guys in your world aren't sucking doesn't mean the ones in his aren't. I think I hit that triple negative right...



No, but so far there have been very different results in different worlds. So its possible the update isn't to blame for everything. If it was the update, the same results should be seen across the board

Who knows what goes into these algorithms? My point is that I'm seeing high-quality players with excellent attributes besides power having catastrophically bad seasons. It's one thing to have a down season. It's another to break your previous 3-4 year hitting trends by .200-.300 OPS points.

Something is rotten in Demark.
12/9/2009 10:02 AM
firemanrob
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It could be the cheese

And yes Swamp, the guy with 60 HRs IS NOT very good at all
12/9/2009 6:03 PM
swamphawk22
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It could be the cheese, but it is probably a poorly executed update.

And for everyone out there wondering, Firemanrob just said a guy who hit 60 HRs is bad!
12/9/2009 10:29 PM
tropicana
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So did I. I'll stand by my statement too.
12/9/2009 11:40 PM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 12/09/2009It could be the cheese, but it is probably a poorly executed update.And for everyone out there wondering, Firemanrob just said a guy who hit 60 HRs is bad!

An RC/27 of 5.16 is comparable to 2008 Chase Headley (5.11), who hit .269/.337/.420 with nine home runs in 331 at-bats. If your guy hit 62 HRs, I can only imagine how putrid the rest of his numbers must have been to turn in an RC/27 just north of 5.

Your guy sucks. The fact that you even think raw home runs are a decent measure of the quality of a hitter just proves how ignorant you are about this.
12/10/2009 12:35 AM
antonsirius
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Here's another comp: Shane Victorino 2006 (5.19 RC/27), who hit .287/.346/.412.

I'd be curious to know what the major league record for home runs is for a guy with an RC/27 under 5.25... I'm guessing it'd be somewhere around 18 or so.
12/10/2009 12:38 AM
swamphawk22
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Seems to be proof that your formula is flawed.

seasonteamlevelGABRH2B3BHRRBIBBSOSBCSAVGOBPSLGOPS
13WICML16266195170101621373816500.257.299.557.856
10WICML15561599150111601313314802.244.282.558.840
These are the 2 years my guy hit 60 HRs. Anyone not want this guy batting cleanup??
12/10/2009 12:18 PM
tropicana
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Holy crap swamp...no WAY that guy should be batting fourth. Even if he's in your lineup, and your lineup is made correctly, fourth is NOT where he should be hitting. I would never, EVER bat that guy fourth.

Guys batting fourth tend to lead off innings more than any other player other than the leadoff man. You want someone with a high OBP hittign fourth. If I only have one guy on my roster with decent power and OBP, you can bet he'll be hitting fourth.
12/10/2009 1:42 PM
tropicana
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Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 12/10/2009Here's another comp: Shane Victorino 2006 (5.19 RC/27), who hit .287/.346/.412.

I'd be curious to know what the major league record for home runs is for a guy with an RC/27 under 5.25... I'm guessing it'd be somewhere around 18 or so
It's not. the record would actually be 46. There's a couple names there that surprised me, like one Ernie Banks season is near the top, and there is an Albert Belle season in there somewhere, but your leader isn't Rob Deer or Dave Kingman but is in fact Jose Canseco. 46 HR season in Toronto in 98.

However, there's only 4 over 40 HR, and 50 or so in the history of baseball with 30 HRs. That's all time.
12/10/2009 1:48 PM
swamphawk22
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Quote: Originally Posted By tropicana on 12/10/2009
Holy crap swamp...no WAY that guy should be batting fourth. Even if he's in your lineup, and your lineup is made correctly, fourth is NOT where he should be hitting. I would never, EVER bat that guy fourth.

Guys batting fourth tend to lead off innings more than any other player other than the leadoff man. You want someone with a high OBP hittign fourth. If I only have one guy on my roster with decent power and OBP, you can bet he'll be hitting fourth.



I have had this debate about lineups with people going back to the 70s.

Odd are that one of your first 3 guys is going to get on base, so your #4 hitter has a chance at a 2 run homer. I am standing by "Put your most homer guy 4th"
12/10/2009 3:01 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 12/09/2009
It could be the cheese, but it is probably a poorly executed update.

And for everyone out there wondering, Firemanrob just said a guy who hit 60 HRs is bad!

When you only have one hitting rating higher than 40-something, you are a mediocre hitter, at best.

Deal with it, and move on.
12/10/2009 3:05 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 12/10/2009
Seems to be proof that your formula is flawed.

seasonteamlevelGABRH2B3BHRRBIBBSOSBCSAVGOBPSLGOPS
13WICML16266195170101621373816500.257.299.557.856
10WICML15561599150111601313314802.244.282.558.840
These are the 2 years my guy hit 60 HRs. Anyone not want this guy batting cleanup??
ME!! ME!!!!

Outs >70% of the time is a 9th-hitting SS.... not a slugger.
12/10/2009 3:07 PM
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