I think it would be justified to defend the courthouse. What isn't justified is meeting the protesters on the streets.

By the way, when I say, "violence," I'm referring to physical harm done to another human being. A more accurate statement would be, "I'm not aware of any violence initiated by protesters in Portland."

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 7/27/2020 5:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 7/26/2020 7:14:00 PM (view original):
Tom Cotton apparently said that slavery was a "necessary evil."

I don't see all3's outrage about this slippery slope.

God, you like everyone else are using this quote out of context. He said the founders viewed slavery as a "necessary evil" which is completely historically accurate.

To take his quote and say Cotton believes slavery was a "necessary evil" is just outright shady reporting, meant to feed the outrage machine and confirm the worldview of true believing lefties like yourself.

Tell me. How does Tom Cotton know what the founders felt about slavery? Was he around at the time? He has no idea how they felt about it.

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 7/27/2020 1:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 7/27/2020 12:08:00 PM (view original):
Ian has repeatedly lied about the protests. He's a grifting scumbag.

By the way, this is your daily reminder that moms and vets are being teargassed in Portland over graffiti and a fence.

Maybe these violent idiots shouldn't be gathering and protesting for 60 days straight during a pandemic? Remember when those open up America protests happened for ONE weekend and everyone said they were so irresponsible?

Maybe you shouldn't categorize all the protesters as violent idiots. The ones that are violent (idiots or not) are not protestors.
That would be lime me saying all guitar players are druggies because several of them have been.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/27/2020 2:40:00 PM (view original):
I'm pretty sure protesters are setting multiple fires per night on Federal property... But feel free to ignore that reality.

You set fire to property (whether federal or private), shoot ballbearings at cops (or anyone else, for that matter), or vandalize statues, you are not a protester. You are a criminal. Peaceful protests is everyone's right. Doing those things is not peacefully protesting. (Wow, yet another time all3 and I probably agree)

Posted by tangplay on 7/27/2020 1:46:00 PM (view original):
To my knowledge, protesters have not caused violence in Portland. AGAIN, the feds are there because of graffiti and a fence being taken down.

then know better

click the link

take ten minutes to educate yourself

https://apnews.com/1dd1bb39093a3691f4e78093787ab877

So reading that article, I see one side trying to take down a fence and the other side using weapons that were banned in the Geneva convention.

From what I have seen, most "violence" against agents were done using weapons that they fired at protesters. Return to sender.

Maybe dont try to take down a fence with the intention of vandalizing or destroying government property? Pretty easy way out of this problem.

Also, a lot of Seattle cop body cam footage has dropped, showing very violent protesters there as well.

There's a pandemic . This is disgraceful. These are just anarchists that want to destroy stuff.

When we've reached a point where we've watered down the definition of fascism to when a government does not permit the destruction of private or government property, when it deigns to enforce the law, we've done a huge disservice to those who have actually experienced real fascism.

As someone who has actually talked to a number of people in antifa, let me assure you that for anyone who wishes a return to stable society, there is nothing positive to take away from this group of activists. They don't think, they repeat slogans. They are so sure of themselves, but have a woefully inadequate understanding of history. They are crusaders, true believers in a cause, and do not ever question themselves and know themselves to be a part of the forces of good fighting evil. For all these reasons and more they are to be feared by any reasonable person on the right or left that just wants a peaceful, prosperous, happy society. They are (like) religious radicals, crusaders, and cannot be swayed from even the worst of their ideas.

Maybe dont try to take down a fence with the intention of vandalizing or destroying government property? Pretty easy way out of this problem.

I don't know if you can read, but I very specifically said that police are justified in defending government property. I assume that you will also condemn ANY police violence that occurs on the streets between police and peaceful protesters?

Also, a lot of Seattle cop body cam footage has dropped, showing very violent protesters there as well.

There's tons of evidence suggesting that police use and release body camera footage in extremely selective ways. I'm sure they released only the footage that makes the police look good.

There's a pandemic . This is disgraceful. These are just anarchists that want to destroy stuff.

It's like you can't read. I already posted a study about how the protests haven't increased cases significantly.

When we've reached a point where we've watered down the definition of fascism to when a government does not permit the destruction of private or government property, when it deigns to enforce the law, we've done a huge disservice to those who have actually experienced real fascism.

Key thing here is "enforce the law." I assure you, if the government were only "enforcing laws", there would be no problem. **** off with this ****. You know just as well as I do that the actions of the feds in Portland specifically are disgusting and disgraceful, and semi-Constitutional. Don't know where the "states rights" people are now?

As someone who has actually talked to a number of people in antifa, let me assure you that for anyone who wishes a return to stable society, there is nothing positive to take away from this group of activists. They don't think, they repeat slogans.

I can't think of any other group in America today that could also fit this definition. Don't get me wrong - I don't disagree with what you are saying. But Trump supporters are wayyyyyy worse in this regard and are doing far more damage to this country than Antifa ever could or would. Also, I'm really curious what percentage of protesters in Portland are "antifa" to you, considering that moms and vets are also out there and getting tear gassed and beaten. I'm sure you'd defend that too. It's defending property as long as they are in the same city.

It is ludicrous to think that thousands of people gathering together are not going to facilitate the spread of this virus. Just as it was ludicrous to believe that masks would not help control the spread of this virus early on when the official word from the CDC, WHO, and elsewhere was that masks only were helpful for those who had the virus/healthcare officials. Same coin. Same side. The timing of this second wave is pretty damning, albeit circumstantial, evidence.

Apparently you don't like studies, so let me give you another piece of circumstantial evidence.

Why is it that this 'second wave' is occurring most in Republican strongholds and more urban areas? Wouldn't we expect the bulk of the spread in June/July to be in Portland, in New York, DC, and California?

It seems, even circumstantially, that the Republican re-opening of states did more to spread the virus than the protests did. Did some people get sick as a result of the protests? Yes, almost certainly. Did it cause any significant spike? Both the studies and the circumstantial evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

By the way, if Trump actually wanted to stop the virus by reducing the protests, the last thing he should be doing is sending federal troops to cities. Any reasonable person would know that this will only increase the protests. There's a zero percent chance that had the police and the government reacted responsibly to the protests, they would still be going on today on a wide scale.

So either way, this is damning to the President.

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 7/27/2020 8:31:00 PM (view original):
Maybe dont try to take down a fence with the intention of vandalizing or destroying government property? Pretty easy way out of this problem.

Also, a lot of Seattle cop body cam footage has dropped, showing very violent protesters there as well.

There's a pandemic . This is disgraceful. These are just anarchists that want to destroy stuff.

When we've reached a point where we've watered down the definition of fascism to when a government does not permit the destruction of private or government property, when it deigns to enforce the law, we've done a huge disservice to those who have actually experienced real fascism.

As someone who has actually talked to a number of people in antifa, let me assure you that for anyone who wishes a return to stable society, there is nothing positive to take away from this group of activists. They don't think, they repeat slogans. They are so sure of themselves, but have a woefully inadequate understanding of history. They are crusaders, true believers in a cause, and do not ever question themselves and know themselves to be a part of the forces of good fighting evil. For all these reasons and more they are to be feared by any reasonable person on the right or left that just wants a peaceful, prosperous, happy society. They are (like) religious radicals, crusaders, and cannot be swayed from even the worst of their ideas.

again, if they are violent, they are not protestors, they are criminals.

Posted by wylie715 on 7/27/2020 6:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/27/2020 2:40:00 PM (view original):
I'm pretty sure protesters are setting multiple fires per night on Federal property... But feel free to ignore that reality.

You set fire to property (whether federal or private), shoot ballbearings at cops (or anyone else, for that matter), or vandalize statues, you are not a protester. You are a criminal. Peaceful protests is everyone's right. Doing those things is not peacefully protesting. (Wow, yet another time all3 and I probably agree)

Must be a full moon or something, but I couldn't agree more with everything stated here.

So turning that back around, police who brutalize protesters who are not participating in any of those activities should also be viewed as criminals?