Posted by ashamael on 8/17/2011 6:43:00 PM (view original):
I'm a huge Worthy fan... but I disagree strongly with your assessment of his defense and your team being the best defensive team so far.

I never watched his defense either but damn could he run the break with that flying one handed finish.

Posted by ashamael on 8/17/2011 6:43:00 PM (view original):
I'm a huge Worthy fan... but I disagree strongly with your assessment of his defense and your team being the best defensive team so far.

Worthy was the best defensive player on the Lakers starting unit. Scott was excellent also and Magic was a great team defender but wasn't a great man on man defensive player, and Jabbar was at the end of his career and wasn't a very good defensive player at that point, and Rambis and A.C. Green were a little above avg. Worthy not only was great at playing the passing lanes causing alot of turnovers but he had to defend the opposing teams best offensive wing player night in and night out quite a bit. Do you think if he wasn't a great defensive player they could've won all those championships? You guys can continue to live in your fantasy simleague world rather than go on the truth. Alot of his fast break dunks were on turnovers created by him. He had to cover players like Bird, Nique, Jordan or Pippen, and the rest of the best wing scorers in the league. Scott was on the opposing teams PG's mostly. The best defensive player was obviously one of the greatest defensive players ever, Coop but he was a back-up and didn't play big mins. Worthy was kinda like KG defensively but like any other player not to that magnitude. The length and speed these 2 possesed was destructive for their opponents.

The Lakers closed out most games with Magic at the point, Scott at SG, Coop at SF, Worthy at PF, and Jabbar at C. Magic defended the opposing PF's most of the time with this line-up. Scott was usually on the point. Cooper always took the best offensive wing player unless they we're playin a great PG like Zeke. Worthy was on the opposite wing player where he created havoc with his great length 6-9 mind u which led to great help D and steals. Jabbar was on the C or weak offensive PF usually. This team was a great defensive team which is a big reason why they won all those championships. Magic & Jabbar did their part cuz they were so smart and the other 3 with all their length & speed made it he!! for their opponents with all those steals they created not to mention the intense man to man D those 3 played. They were one of the best defensive units ever and Worthy was a huge part of it. Obviously you guys didn't watch one of the greatest teams of all time play cuz if you did you would realize just how devistating they were on both ends of the floor. I would put this team up against any team ever and that includes the great Bulls teams with Jordan. The Bulls might and I do emphasize might win in a 7 game series but I'm not so sure the Lakers wouldn't come out on top. Worthy is a huge reason why I think they might be able to beat the Bulls! He is one of the most underrated players ever, especially with simleagues and simleaguers! Their half court press was awesome also and Worthy excelled more than any other player on the team when they used it! 

Education 101, thank you have a nice day!        

Wow, you're a ******* ********, aren't you?

You call people out for having a different opinion than yourself and then get uber defensive when someone talks about one of your players.

You accuse me (or anyone) of relying on the sim to justify anything?  Have you played this sim (I know the answer to this question).  Why in the world would anybody take anything from this sim as evidence of anything in a discussion of RL?  But since you brought it up... even when the sim was giving out 100s for defensive rating like they were candy (ie EVERYBODY was overrated.  Except Russell & Hakeem), Worthy still had a dr in the 40s & 50s.  Was he an all-time defender?  No way.  Was he a bad defender?  No.  He was an above-average defender and that's it.

(after looking more into it, he wasn't even above-average.  He was really just average.  And that's being nice).

You can take your idealistic bullshit and shove them up your hypocritical, oversensitive *** you ******* cumguzzling son of a diseased-ridden whore.  Education 101?  Please.  **** you.

Worthy was actually like Horry defensively with better speed! Deflections, poking balls away, playin passing lanes, steals, etc.  

ps the lakers weren't really a good defensive team.  Again, stats aren't everything, but Worthy has a career DR of 108.  He was never higher than 5th on any of those Laker teams and was often near the bottom.

Again... a career DR of 108.  His teammate Magic Johnson had 104.  Charles Barkley had 105.  108?  PLEASE.  The top 250 ends with a 104-something.  Education 441.

He does get some defensive win shares, but he also played a lot of minutes.  He also was consistently behind Magic, Kareem, and then later Scott & AC Green.

Sorry... there's no statistics to back up your misremembered greatness on defense.  He was still an incredible offensive player and totally worth being drafted way earlier... he's just no where as good of defensive player as you seem to want him to be.

Damn syd nobody said he was a bad defender (to mention again huge fan) but to compare him to KG is silly. He did his part and gave everything he had and held his own but lets not claim him as one of the greatest defenders ever. I would agree he was extremely underated but wasn't he part of the 50 greatest. Maybe I am wrong. Anyway that was an awful sensitive rant. By the way I liked the pick

Posted by snydpie on 8/17/2011 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 8/17/2011 6:43:00 PM (view original):
I'm a huge Worthy fan... but I disagree strongly with your assessment of his defense and your team being the best defensive team so far.

Worthy was the best defensive player on the Lakers starting unit. Scott was excellent also and Magic was a great team defender but wasn't a great man on man defensive player, and Jabbar was at the end of his career and wasn't a very good defensive player at that point, and Rambis and A.C. Green were a little above avg. Worthy not only was great at playing the passing lanes causing alot of turnovers but he had to defend the opposing teams best offensive wing player night in and night out quite a bit. Do you think if he wasn't a great defensive player they could've won all those championships? You guys can continue to live in your fantasy simleague world rather than go on the truth. Alot of his fast break dunks were on turnovers created by him. He had to cover players like Bird, Nique, Jordan or Pippen, and the rest of the best wing scorers in the league. Scott was on the opposing teams PG's mostly. The best defensive player was obviously one of the greatest defensive players ever, Coop but he was a back-up and didn't play big mins. Worthy was kinda like KG defensively but like any other player not to that magnitude. The length and speed these 2 possesed was destructive for their opponents.

The Lakers closed out most games with Magic at the point, Scott at SG, Coop at SF, Worthy at PF, and Jabbar at C. Magic defended the opposing PF's most of the time with this line-up. Scott was usually on the point. Cooper always took the best offensive wing player unless they we're playin a great PG like Zeke. Worthy was on the opposite wing player where he created havoc with his great length 6-9 mind u which led to great help D and steals. Jabbar was on the C or weak offensive PF usually. This team was a great defensive team which is a big reason why they won all those championships. Magic & Jabbar did their part cuz they were so smart and the other 3 with all their length & speed made it he!! for their opponents with all those steals they created not to mention the intense man to man D those 3 played. They were one of the best defensive units ever and Worthy was a huge part of it. Obviously you guys didn't watch one of the greatest teams of all time play cuz if you did you would realize just how devistating they were on both ends of the floor. I would put this team up against any team ever and that includes the great Bulls teams with Jordan. The Bulls might and I do emphasize might win in a 7 game series but I'm not so sure the Lakers wouldn't come out on top. Worthy is a huge reason why I think they might be able to beat the Bulls! He is one of the most underrated players ever, especially with simleagues and simleaguers! Their half court press was awesome also and Worthy excelled more than any other player on the team when they used it! 

Education 101, thank you have a nice day!        

Just my opinion but Kareem would have been the difference in a series of those Lakers team vs Jordans Bulls. Granted Kareem was older but Cartwright, Perdue, Wendington for the Bulls.

Posted by ashamael on 8/17/2011 8:49:00 PM (view original):
ps the lakers weren't really a good defensive team.  Again, stats aren't everything, but Worthy has a career DR of 108.  He was never higher than 5th on any of those Laker teams and was often near the bottom.

Again... a career DR of 108.  His teammate Magic Johnson had 104.  Charles Barkley had 105.  108?  PLEASE.  The top 250 ends with a 104-something.  Education 441.

He does get some defensive win shares, but he also played a lot of minutes.  He also was consistently behind Magic, Kareem, and then later Scott & AC Green.

Sorry... there's no statistics to back up your misremembered greatness on defense.  He was still an incredible offensive player and totally worth being drafted way earlier... he's just no where as good of defensive player as you seem to want him to be.

DR? Where is this DR you're throwing out there coming from? The only reason the Lakers played high scoring games is cuz they were showtime. They ran up and down the court. They blew teams out consistantly and partied on the sidelines as their scrubs mopped up! Worthy was so long, quick, and fast teams would stay away from him especially in the post where he would just go around players for steals! I need more than this DR whatever it is. If it's a sim stat then you proved my point on just how clouded and just how much you have been brain washed by simleagues! 

You comparing Magic & Barkley to Worthy defensively let's me know how clouded you're knowledge of Worthy is. There's no comparison between them. I'm sure this rating would have Dream and other way worse defensive players close in DR #'s but it's just #'s cuz there is no other C I have ever seen that even compares to Dream defensively! DR, give me a break! 

with pippen, jordan, rodman, and harper digging in for steals and quick doubles...they would have made it very tough for him to get the ball where he wanted it and to get off a clean look

Posted by sappy on 8/17/2011 8:54:00 PM (view original):
Damn syd nobody said he was a bad defender (to mention again huge fan) but to compare him to KG is silly. He did his part and gave everything he had and held his own but lets not claim him as one of the greatest defenders ever. I would agree he was extremely underated but wasn't he part of the 50 greatest. Maybe I am wrong. Anyway that was an awful sensitive rant. By the way I liked the pick

I'm not comparing him to KG just saying their were a few similarities. I'm comparing him to Horry but with way more quickness and speed. I wouldn't compare anyone to KG's whole defensive game! 

DR is a pretty legit stat....the fact that you didnt even know what it meant wont give you much bball cred round these parts

and hakeem always was near the top in DR

Posted by dh555 on 8/17/2011 9:07:00 PM (view original):
with pippen, jordan, rodman, and harper digging in for steals and quick doubles...they would have made it very tough for him to get the ball where he wanted it and to get off a clean look

The Lakers had a great half court game to go with the best running game ever. Don't ever underestimate Magic's impact on a game. The Lakers didn't turn the ball over much and they moved the ball around the horn better than any always making that extra pass for the open shot and knocking it down! 

Posted by snydpie on 8/17/2011 9:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/17/2011 9:07:00 PM (view original):
with pippen, jordan, rodman, and harper digging in for steals and quick doubles...they would have made it very tough for him to get the ball where he wanted it and to get off a clean look

The Lakers had a great half court game to go with the best running game ever. Don't ever underestimate Magic's impact on a game. The Lakers didn't turn the ball over much and they moved the ball around the horn better than any always making that extra pass for the open shot and knocking it down! 

lakers never met a defensive team like that bulls team....magic would be dealing with 3 guys with size who could cover him....the passing lanes would be tighter then ever before...pippen and jordan covered more ground then any wing...maybe in history

Posted by dh555 on 8/17/2011 9:11:00 PM (view original):
DR is a pretty legit stat....the fact that you didnt even know what it meant wont give you much bball cred round these parts

and hakeem always was near the top in DR

So this is a sim defensive rating then? A  stat can't tell how great a player is defensively. There are so many things to consider when it comes to defense and you rely on stats from a simleague that rates great defensive players like Russell avg and horrible players avg also? Dell Curry was an awful defensive player but somehow the sim has turned him into a pretty good one LOL and there are so many other instances of these same horrible mistakes. I remember watching Dell tryin to defend Jordan and it was like he wasn't even on the court. It was an embarrassment as he just watched him blow by with absolutely no effort not to mention all the other times I watched Curry get blown by from players much more inferior to Jordan. Show some pride at least Curry! He was an embarrasment on D but it 's a good thing he has a good DR LMFAO! Iverson gave up wide open shots all game while he ran around on D tryin to get steals, good thing for DR eh dh555?

Posted by dh555 on 8/17/2011 9:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/17/2011 9:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/17/2011 9:07:00 PM (view original):
with pippen, jordan, rodman, and harper digging in for steals and quick doubles...they would have made it very tough for him to get the ball where he wanted it and to get off a clean look

The Lakers had a great half court game to go with the best running game ever. Don't ever underestimate Magic's impact on a game. The Lakers didn't turn the ball over much and they moved the ball around the horn better than any always making that extra pass for the open shot and knocking it down! 

lakers never met a defensive team like that bulls team....magic would be dealing with 3 guys with size who could cover him....the passing lanes would be tighter then ever before...pippen and jordan covered more ground then any wing...maybe in history

Magic played against Jordan & Pippen and won championships during those years so what's ur point?