Is there a reason these examples are being limited to active players when this entire discussion has been about historical players?

I don't know.  Is your point that Cory Luebke is better at controlling balls in play than CC Sabathia?  That Jeremy Gutherie is better at it than Greg Maddux was?

Posted by Jtpsops on 2/23/2012 12:43:00 PM (view original):
Is there a reason these examples are being limited to active players when this entire discussion has been about historical players?

Active players were easier to pick at random because I was grabbing them off team lists.  There is no all time BABIP list that I could find.

But there were plenty of retired guys in the first list.

REALITY CHECK!!!

We've gone from a discussion about Catfish Hunter vs. Steve Carlton to this:

Bert Blyleven .286
Larry Dierker  .272
Ron Darling  .281
Don Drysdale .275
Bob Walk .282
Don McMahon .257
Ron Reed .280
Wilbur Wood .276

And clearly jrd is insane.

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 12:44:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.  Is your point that Cory Luebke is better at controlling balls in play than CC Sabathia?  That Jeremy Gutherie is better at it than Greg Maddux was?

Outliers.    It is OK for someone besides you to claim this, right?

Don McMahon.   Career ERA of 2.96, WHIP of 1.246.    Better than Carlton.  Thanks for that.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2012 12:56:00 PM (view original):
Don McMahon.   Career ERA of 2.96, WHIP of 1.246.    Better than Carlton.  Thanks for that.

McMahon was very good but he was a relief pitcher.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2012 12:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 12:44:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.  Is your point that Cory Luebke is better at controlling balls in play than CC Sabathia?  That Jeremy Gutherie is better at it than Greg Maddux was?

Outliers.    It is OK for someone besides you to claim this, right?

You can if you can show some sort of correlation between career BABIP and career ERA.

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2012 12:56:00 PM (view original):
Don McMahon.   Career ERA of 2.96, WHIP of 1.246.    Better than Carlton.  Thanks for that.

McMahon was very good but he was a relief pitcher.

If you don't want me to use a player's stats, don't list him.  I'm not the one listing BABIP.

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 1:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2012 12:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 12:44:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.  Is your point that Cory Luebke is better at controlling balls in play than CC Sabathia?  That Jeremy Gutherie is better at it than Greg Maddux was?

Outliers.    It is OK for someone besides you to claim this, right?

You can if you can show some sort of correlation between career BABIP and career ERA.

Well, if you're only going to list All-Star/HOF-types, I'm going to say "Under the league average BABIP creates a good ERA."

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2012 1:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 1:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2012 12:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jrd_x on 2/23/2012 12:44:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.  Is your point that Cory Luebke is better at controlling balls in play than CC Sabathia?  That Jeremy Gutherie is better at it than Greg Maddux was?

Outliers.    It is OK for someone besides you to claim this, right?

You can if you can show some sort of correlation between career BABIP and career ERA.

Well, if you're only going to list All-Star/HOF-types, I'm going to say "Under the league average BABIP creates a good ERA."

I listed Gutherie, Luebke, Dice-K, Stauffer, Freddy Garcia, Zito, AJ Burnett, Javier Vasquez, Danks, Morrow, Ervin Santana, Jurjens, Correia, Masterson, McCarthy, Capuano, Bob Walk, Darling, Ron Reed, Dierker, & Wilbur Wood.

I don't think any of them will ever make the Hall.  

Perhaps you don't understand "All-Star" or "type".

Stauffer?  Not an all star.
Luebke?  Not an all star.
Guthrie?  Not an all star
Garcia?  hasn't been an all star since 2002. (and his BABIP was .294 that year)
Dice-K? Not an all star
Zito was an all star but he also had an ERA of 4.53 in '07 with a BABIP of...wait for it ....265 
AJ Burnett? Not an all star
Danks? Not an all star

Do I have to keep going or will you admit that BABIP is outside of a pitcher's control?