Posted by dino27 on 2/12/2019 12:35:00 PM (view original):
at one time affirmative action was the only way fo many deserving african americans to get into many colleges...it isnt punishment...
i say worry about the african american population more and not about a few white kids who are still going to go to college.

at one time affirmative action was probably needed because the best prospects were not always getting in if they were black, or hispanic or jewish..and so on. But if I am running a school or a business and the government says I have to hire or accept candidate A because that person is a minority, even if candidate B is more qualified, isn't that a sort of racism?

Posted by wylie715 on 2/12/2019 1:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 2/12/2019 12:35:00 PM (view original):
at one time affirmative action was the only way fo many deserving african americans to get into many colleges...it isnt punishment...
i say worry about the african american population more and not about a few white kids who are still going to go to college.

at one time affirmative action was probably needed because the best prospects were not always getting in if they were black, or hispanic or jewish..and so on. But if I am running a school or a business and the government says I have to hire or accept candidate A because that person is a minority, even if candidate B is more qualified, isn't that a sort of racism?

Yes

Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2019 12:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2019 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2019 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2019 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2019 12:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2019 12:20:00 PM (view original):
This explains the crux of our disagreement. You see a better society as a more diverse society. Diversity is important. I will not disagree there, but to me a better society is one that promotes hard work and achievement. I believe that each individual should strive to improve themselves. We should not punish those that produce better results. That makes for a worse society in my opinion. This is what affirmative action programs do. They reward the person who has achieved less simply because of a skin color. It is a very unjust practice in my opinion and detracts from the betterment of the world.

I think you see the world in a way that is slightly refracted from reality.

We don't live in a perfect meritocracy. That Brady White scored high on the SAT test and carried a 4.2 GPA doesn't necessarily mean he achieved the most. It just means he thrived in the system as it's set up.

If we understand that the system might have its own built in biases, then we understand that the results aren't a perfect reflection of achievement.

The simplest way to look at it, at least to me, is this:

Blacks represent 12% of the population. Because we have such a large sample, in a true color-blind meritocracy, blacks would make up roughly 12% of students at elite schools. But they don't.

Why that is is important and still somewhat unknown. But unless there is something about blacks that makes them inherently less capable than whites, there's some other factor in play.

Could it possible be that 70% of black kids come from single parent households? Could it possibly be that white kids are graduating high school at a much higher rate? These two facts have nothing to do with racism. They are flaws within a culture. We need to start accounting for the individual and stop lumping people together.

It could be possible. But I would say that it's impossible to separate black struggles from racism.

Racism is not forcing black fathers from sticking around to raise their children. Racism isn't forcing black kids to drop out of schools. This is why we have to quit lumping groups together and look at the individual.

You have an overly-simplistic view of the world.

so do you.

I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

is it real or is it just joking around...it isnt my cup of tea....i know that all3 is dead serious all the time....im not sure whats up with cccp.
maybe it is just his sense of humor ?
ive wondered about this.
ive tried to be fair to everyone.

Posted by laramiebob on 2/12/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

This is Tang's thread. I have rebuked CCCP for his personal attacks in the other thread. And i'm pretty sure I have commented on his attacks in this thread as well.

Also, regarding my thread, I try to only step in if it going to take the conversation in the wrong direction. Other than that, we are all grown ups and can defend ourselves.

Posted by laramiebob on 2/12/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

I am shallow and dumb? LOL. You don’t think I have the right to defend myself from redline Dino and bad luck who called my dad an idiot and my mom a *****? OK Bob. Sorry your feelings are hurt.

i no longer take them as attacks...it is funny..a little repetitive but usually funny.
but it brings down a good solid conversation/discussion.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2019 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 2/12/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

This is Tang's thread. I have rebuked CCCP for his personal attacks in the other thread. And i'm pretty sure I have commented on his attacks in this thread as well.

You have but I am like a wild animal. You cannot control
this mad Russian Jew.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/12/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 2/12/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

I am shallow and dumb? LOL. You don’t think I have the right to defend myself from redline Dino and bad luck who called my dad an idiot and my mom a *****? OK Bob. Sorry your feelings are hurt.

i was never a big don rickles fan but you are a performance artist.
i get you now.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/12/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 2/12/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

I am shallow and dumb? LOL. You don’t think I have the right to defend myself from redline Dino and bad luck who called my dad an idiot and my mom a *****? OK Bob. Sorry your feelings are hurt.

They called your dad an idiot?

Oh dear.

Posted by dino27 on 2/12/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):
i no longer take them as attacks...it is funny..a little repetitive but usually funny.
but it brings down a good solid conversation/discussion.

So you won’t redline them anymore?

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/12/2019 1:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/12/2019 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 2/12/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
I agree with KO on this as well as BL. The bigger determination is wealth (family or maybe even community wealth as that effects school funding.). Rural poor areas children are as disadvantaged educationally as any other subset of students you can look at. In MOST areas of the Country race is less of an issue than the economics issue studies seem to agree about. It appears to me that both BL and Coach also agree, as do I.

Why is it necessary to hurl insults and attack debate "opponents"? No body wins debates. In this case agreement was found.
I thought you were going to police this thread Coach. Why no rebuke of Boris for his personal and unnecessary attacks?

Boris, PLEASE, lay off. We all know you disagree with certain posters. Your continued attempts to belittle and mock them just make you look even shallower and dumber than you are!

This is Tang's thread. I have rebuked CCCP for his personal attacks in the other thread. And i'm pretty sure I have commented on his attacks in this thread as well.

You have but I am like a wild animal. You cannot control
this mad Russian Jew.

vilda chia.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/12/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 2/12/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):
i no longer take them as attacks...it is funny..a little repetitive but usually funny.
but it brings down a good solid conversation/discussion.

So you won’t redline them anymore?

i have an invisible redline...it works just fine.