Savage IV Rosters/Commentary Topic

If I need a combined reb% > 130 and full team eFG > 56, I will get started on building my S5 draft board!
3/22/2021 10:44 AM
Posted by robusk on 3/22/2021 10:43:00 AM (view original):
@jkaye24: since data is no longer in the cloud for you to see (I had to archive it because the queries break when the teams expire)... don’t recall what your preseason numbers were but you finished 14th in creb% last season.
Ah thanks, I do recall I was average last year. But my Creb was more like 125% so it sounds like getting to 130 is a significant breakthrough to get to the upper tier. I thought it might be closer to 135 for above average and 140 for elite.
3/22/2021 11:01 AM
Posted by dBKC on 3/21/2021 8:17:00 PM (view original):
Evals part 1 (1-5):

1. cmcafeeky - LeBron James, Larry Nance, Robert Parish, Joakim Noah, Kevin Love, Kemba Walker, Kyle Anderson, Ed Davis, Paul Westphal, George Gervin, Caldwell Jones, Terrance Jones

What went right: obviously getting the best player in the SIM is a huge win. Larry Nance and Joakim Noah provide great front court D and allow you to hide a weak defender at PF since they can both switch and allow the PF to cover a SF or C if needed. Robert Parish and Kevin Love fit this role perfectly since their weak D will be hidden. Joakim Noah and Kevin Love provide an assists boost so that you can run Bron at PG. Kyle Anderson fits nicely in to all of that too. I dig all of that.

What might go wrong: is Kemba Bron’s backup all 5 seasons? I don’t really like that. Kemba doesn’t have 5 strong years and that’s going to cause some issues. Are Gervin and Westphal your SG rotation? I’d feel better about both coming off the bench.

If I could do one repick: I would’ve went with Deron Williams or Jrue Holiday over Robert Parish. That would’ve given you an upgrade at SG plus you could flex them to Bron’s backup, and you’d still have a Nance/Love/Noah frontcourt.

2. jhsukow - Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kyrie Irving, Kobe Bryant, Paul Millsap, Otto Porter, J.R. Smith, Baron Davis, Eddie Jones, Mason Plumlee, Brandon Rush, Marquese Chriss

What went right: Loading up on high usage guards and shooting is a nice way to get the best out of Wilt (and allows you to use his lower usage seasons). Opponents are going to have a hard time figuring out to defend inside or outside with Wilt + shooters. Plumlee and Chriss and Millsap gives you a big rebounding advantage when they’re in.

What might go wrong: Spending a 2nd on Russell (and his low eFG) might put you in too big of a hole. Is Otto Porter playing SF (where you take a hit at rebounding), or SG (where you take a hit on passing)? Are the lower usage Rush and Jones backing up Kobe?

If I could redo one pick: I was tempted to put a Russell repick here but I’m not really sure if there was a better option on the board. I would’ve went with George Gervin over Eddie Jones because he’d be a pretty great Kobe backup.

3. jkaye24 - Steph Curry, Karl-Anthony Towns, Donyell Marshall, Pau Gasol, Paul Pressey, Derrick Favors, Richaun Holmes, Khris Middleton, Toni Kukoc, Jarrett Allen, Ivaka Zubac, Michael Ray Richardson

What went right: You’ve got tons of offense while also alternating string defenders with weak ones. While Steph and KAT aren’t ideal defenders: Donyell and Pressey and Favors and a few others cover nicely for them. Pressey is a great player as long as you have shooting to cover for him and well, you definitely have that covered. Some great late round steals like Zubac and Middleton and Jarrett Allen

What might go wrong: The D might not be strong enough to contend. I know Steph isn’t a horrible defender, but ideally you want him to be the worst defender on your team. Who is backing up Steph?...Michael Ray Richardson?

If I could redo one pick: I just don’t like Pau Gasol for this team. He’s not a strong enough defender to be the 3rd banana on a Steph/KAT team. I would’ve picked Kirilenko instead. He would instantly give you at least an average defense and could’ve helped with the passing too (he and Pressey would give great assists off the wings)

4. tarheel1991 - Shaquille O'Neal, Tyson Chandler, Mookie Blaylock, Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Anthony Mason, David West, Yao Ming, Bismack Boyombo, Gordon Hayward, Jonathon Isaac, Will Perdue

What went right: the 4th pick is tough because there’s no real clear cut option but I think you made the right call with Shaq. Looks like you were able to get enough shooting around him to capitalize. Yao is a clever Shaq backup.

What might go wrong: are you starting two PGs (Mookie and/or Jrue and/or Conley)? I don’t think Chandler and Shaq give you enough of a rebounding edge to afford to do that. Not sure if anyone on this squad aside from Shaq is that scary, you might see some double teams.

If I could do one pick over: would’ve went with Kyrie/Drexler at the 3/4 turn instead of Blaylock/Jrue. Still gives you the shooting but with more rebounding.

5. robusk - Dwight Howard, Shawn Marion, Kyle Lowry, Deron Williams, Sidney Moncrief, Chris Andersen, Kyle O'Quinn, Robert Covington, Mitchell Robinson, Chris Gatling, Rudy Gay, Nerlens Noel

What went right: you have lots of guys who need to move around or come of the bench for a season or two, and you’re the perfect owner to pull this puzzle off. Looks like you got enough shooting around Dwight. Between Lowry and Deron, you’ll have 5 great starting seasons at PG. The defense on this team is fantastic. That plus Dwight’s eFG should be a winning formula.

What might go wrong: Can you assemble all of these puzzle pieces in the right order? (Marion can play everywhere from SG to PF, which Marions do you pair with Deron and which ones with Lowry?)

If I could do one pick over: I don’t think I would’ve been able to resist pairing KAT (over Marion) with Dwight for a killer inside-outside combo that would punish teams that went with a weak defender at one of their frontcourt spots.
6. pexetera - Michael Jordan, Andre Drummond, Clint Capela, Andrei Kirilenko, Jose Calderon, Enes Kanter, Arvydas Sabonis, Brandan Wright, George Hill, Jameer Nelson, Amir Johnson, Thomas Bryant

What went right: tons of boards, great paint scoring, plenty of great defenders, should have solid enough eFG to hang with opponents while also out rebounding them. Will always have 2 good big men on the court at all times.

What might go wrong: Well, let me preface this by saying I won’t bet against Pex but: I don’t know if there’s enough shooting here for people to not go -2/-3 on you. Who is MJ’s backup? I don’t see anyone that fits his usage/role off the bench. The PG rotation doesn’t look too solid. Ben tried a similar strategy last season by loading up at other positions and cobbling together a PG rotation and it didn’t work too well for him.

If I could do one pick over: I probably would’ve went with Charlie Ward or Nate McMillan over Enes Kanter in the 6th. Both would’ve looked great next to MJ.

7. dbkc - Giannis Antetokounmpo, Shawn Kemp, Ben Simmons, Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Andrew Bynum, Bill Bridges, Nick Anderson, Grant Hill, Dan Majerle, Jamario Moon, Brad Daugherty

I’m not going to evaluate myself. Someone else can if they want to. I like my squad quite a bit but I’d probably take back the Bill Bridges pick if I could.

8. albiband0 - Chris Paul, Dikembe Mutombo, Carlos Boozer, Alvin Robertson, John Henson, Dan Roundfield, Mike Miller, Cedric Ceballos, Elvin Hayes, Alex English, Jeff Ruland, Myles Turner

What went right: Chris Paul is a great building block for this league since PG is so important. Lots of good defenders. Should be able to cobble together average 3s between Miller and Myles and Paul.

What might go wrong: Who is backing up Paul? I really don’t see his backup here. Not sure if you’ll have even 50 AST% when he’s off the floor. I don’t like Boozer in the 3rd, especially because Dikembe isn’t really the right match for him since he can’t switch on to PFs. I think Alvin and Henson went too high as well. Not sure if there’s enough firepower here.

If I could do one pick over: Kevin Johnson instead of Roundfield. Then you’d have 48 minutes of great PG play on all 5 teams.

9. gerryred - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Buck Williams, Mark Price, Rajon Rondo, Jonas Valanciunas, Kyle Korver, Clarence Weatherspoon, Pascal Siakam, Jayson Tatum, Buddy Hield, Ron Artest, Patty Mills

What went right: Kareem at 9 is fantastic value. Tatum and Hield were great steals late in the draft. Looks like you’ll have plenty of 3s around KAJ. Siakam in the 8th is a good value too. Jonas as a flex player next to KAJ and also backing him up is nice.

What might go wrong: Kareem is only a great value at 9 IF you capitalize on your 2nd and 3rd rounders and I’m not sure that happened with Buck and Price. Especially with Buck seemingly playing PF and not SF. Looks like you’ll only have one capable passer on the floor at one time. Not sure if the rebounding OR assists will be up to snuff most times - lots of guys like Korver who provide neither.

If I could do one pick over: would’ve gone with Shawn Kemp over Buck in the 2nd to shore up the boards and take advantage of anyone trying to hide a weak defender in the frontcourt

10. jpevans31 - David Robinson, Nikola Jokic, Manu Ginobili, Emeka Okafor, Andre Iguodala, A.C. Green, Joe Ingles, Michael Cooper, Larry Smith, Danny Granger, Oliver Miller, Derrick Rose

What went right: The Admiral is a great building block, and it looks like your strategy was to go heavy on the boards by selecting two passers who can rebound in the 2nd and 3rd. Jokic, who allows you to play a SG at PG and still have decent assists, and Manu, who fills that role perfectly. Iggy and Ingles help complete that strategy of bigger wings who can pass. Oliver Miller is a clever Jokic backup since he can contribute some of the assists.

What might go wrong: your strategy is smart, but you had to reach several times in the draft to pull it off. Will your lack of value/ADP/firepower hurt you?

If I could do one pick over: I would’ve grabbed Penny over Okafor in the 4th since he fits your big PG strategy. His low AST% would be helped a lot by Jokic.
3/22/2021 12:01 PM (edited)
Posted by tarheel1991 on 3/22/2021 9:44:00 AM (view original):
Howard/Towns would have been killer. I think I would have done it in your shoes. I took Marion in almost the exact same spot in Savage 2 and regretted it, not because there's anything wrong with him (I love him) but because I had committed such a high pick to a mid-usage wing, which is just such a fungible commodity (even if Marion is an elite one). But I also had taken MJ in the first round in that draft, and I think it's a much better gamble when you already have an elite post or PG in the bag. (Marion's good D sometimes flexing to SG also allowed you to take guards who aren't elite defenders, and both Lowry and Deron were really good picks, IMO). I just think Towns would have been a higher upside pick (as I told you I even considered doing it with Shaq, and that would have been a much worse fit).
Why I ultimately decided to go Marion over Towns: seems like lots of users are misreading pex’s strategy and thinking that loading up on rebounds is the trick to consistent success. So, my thinking was that with rebounding being over emphasized, I could focus on Dwight’s other strengths which are defense and eFG. When I mocked it out, it was way easier to build teams around 55 eFG and 70s/80s defense with Marion. Towns would have put me more in the eFG/rebounding mold and I felt like I would have had a smaller player pool left to choose from. As it ended up, I mostly felt good about every subsequent pick without reaching and still ended up in the competitive range on rebounding.
3/22/2021 11:56 AM
These are great, dbkc.
3/22/2021 12:03 PM
Posted by robusk on 3/22/2021 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tarheel1991 on 3/22/2021 9:44:00 AM (view original):
Howard/Towns would have been killer. I think I would have done it in your shoes. I took Marion in almost the exact same spot in Savage 2 and regretted it, not because there's anything wrong with him (I love him) but because I had committed such a high pick to a mid-usage wing, which is just such a fungible commodity (even if Marion is an elite one). But I also had taken MJ in the first round in that draft, and I think it's a much better gamble when you already have an elite post or PG in the bag. (Marion's good D sometimes flexing to SG also allowed you to take guards who aren't elite defenders, and both Lowry and Deron were really good picks, IMO). I just think Towns would have been a higher upside pick (as I told you I even considered doing it with Shaq, and that would have been a much worse fit).
Why I ultimately decided to go Marion over Towns: seems like lots of users are misreading pex’s strategy and thinking that loading up on rebounds is the trick to consistent success. So, my thinking was that with rebounding being over emphasized, I could focus on Dwight’s other strengths which are defense and eFG. When I mocked it out, it was way easier to build teams around 55 eFG and 70s/80s defense with Marion. Towns would have put me more in the eFG/rebounding mold and I felt like I would have had a smaller player pool left to choose from. As it ended up, I mostly felt good about every subsequent pick without reaching and still ended up in the competitive range on rebounding.
Makes perfect sense.

But rebounding wouldn't have been the draw of Towns for me; it would have been the draw of pairing two absolute efg% monsters, and being able to take advantage of the huge scoring of those 2, plus the threes from Towns at the 4/5, to load up on uber-efficient guards and wings with less pressure to get scoring and threes from them. Not to mention how much pressure it would have put on opponents without multiple good post defenders.

I do agree that it would have limited your draft pool significantly. As I said before, if nothing else, you probably would have been less comfortable with a Deron/Lowry PG platoon if you didn't have Marion's D already on board.
3/22/2021 1:31 PM
Posted by jhsukow on 3/22/2021 11:50:00 AM (view original):
Already trouble in training camp.
Dying
3/22/2021 1:34 PM
Posted by jhsukow on 3/22/2021 11:50:00 AM (view original):
Already trouble in training camp.
By my records, you drafted the most amount of minutes so I think you can afford to do this easier than most.

This was hilarious though.
3/22/2021 1:41 PM
Thanks for the evals, dBKC.
3/22/2021 2:01 PM
Great evals dBKC, love the format. Very consumable. I'm worried about reading mine.... Who's my #2 scorer? Why not more defense on the bench. Are you kidding me with Darrell Walker?!?!
3/22/2021 2:28 PM
Appreciate the evals, dB. I had no defined strategy until I grabbed Manu. Last season I wasn't great, but it was my best so far, so I repeated the very little prep approach. It might not do well, but I'm digging trying a different type of team for me.
3/22/2021 2:34 PM
Posted by jhsukow on 3/22/2021 11:50:00 AM (view original):
Already trouble in training camp.
Best one yet
3/22/2021 3:04 PM
I really love the format of the evals, dbkc.
3/22/2021 4:40 PM
Alright, I have now wasted much of my work day completing the building of my 5 teams, and am both more and less optimistic than I was before. More optimistic because I think I have two teams that could be really good. Less optimistic because I have a hard time believing this team can make a real push for the top 3; too many teams have meh defense, meh rebounding, or both. But I do think none of my teams should be as bad as my worst team last year; having 2500+ minutes of 57%+ Shaq at 30%+ usage on every team means it's hard to be too terrible.
3/22/2021 4:40 PM
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