Tea Party 4-18-11 Topic

tark
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5/8/2010 4:45 PM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/08/2010we have to make a concious choice between liberty and life.

Wrong.
5/8/2010 5:44 PM
swamphawk22
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This topic never really came up, other than me defending the Bush administration against charges of War Crimes.

I do believe that we need to make a choice between liberty and life. I choose liberty.

I accpet that Americans may die if we keep our social and political freedom. I am willing to die for that cause.

I dont think Obama can make that call and still be an effective President. He needs to "Bush Up" his policies to prevent an attack that would cripple his ability to lead.
5/8/2010 10:16 PM
wrmiller13
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 5/08/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By tark on 5/08/2010
I just reread your post sox believe me homeland security cares nothing about what any judge says they are a blight that future generations will feel ashamed of.
So if a Federal Judge ordered Homeland security to stop carrying out one of its policies you believe they would ignore the order


Courts tell other branches all the time that they cannot continue doing what they are doing, and those branches continue to do so. Change the names of the "policies" or modify them a little and business as usual.
5/8/2010 10:48 PM
swamphawk22
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Quote: Originally Posted By wrmiller13 on 5/08/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 5/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By tark on 5/08/2010
I just reread your post sox believe me homeland security cares nothing about what any judge says they are a blight that future generations will feel ashamed of.
So if a Federal Judge ordered Homeland security to stop carrying out one of its policies you believe they would ignore the order?



Courts tell other branches all the time that they cannot continue doing what they are doing, and those branches continue to do so. Change the names of the "policies" or modify them a little and business as usual.
I am not aware of this. Can you give an example?
5/8/2010 11:17 PM
wrmiller13
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In Ohio, the state SC has told the state legislature at least 4 times that the way they fund education is unconstitutional and to change it. They have made minor tweaks to their system, but no major overhauls.
5/9/2010 7:39 AM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/08/2010This topic never really came up, other than me defending the Bush administration against charges of War Crimes. I do believe that we need to make a choice between liberty and life. I choose liberty. I accpet that Americans may die if we keep our social and political freedom. I am willing to die for that cause. I dont think Obama can make that call and still be an effective President. He needs to "Bush Up" his policies to prevent an attack that would cripple his ability to lead.

Wrong.
5/9/2010 9:39 AM
swamphawk22
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I am willing to defend this.

Freedom will make us weaker as a people against external attack. I am willing to pay that cost.

How can you defend a position that says that a free society isnt as able to defend themselves against this kind of terror attacks as a repressive society?
5/9/2010 9:58 AM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/09/2010Freedom will make us weaker

Wrong.
5/9/2010 10:07 AM
tark
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Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/09/2010I am willing to defend this. Freedom will make us weaker as a people against external attack. I am willing to pay that cost. How can you defend a position that says that a free society isnt as able to defend themselves against this kind of terror attacks as a repressive society?
A society that takes away your freedom IS by definition a repressive society. I will save this post by you to be reposted every time you claim you and your like aren't following nazi-like tendencies. Your type is the greatest danger to our society and authoritarian types like you are smothering the great ideals of this country.
5/9/2010 3:55 PM
swamphawk22
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I dont want to reduce the freedom. I just accept the fact that it creates more danger.

That is one of the prices we pay for freedom.
5/9/2010 4:10 PM
tark
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So you backtrack then say basically the same thing. Compromise is a good thing but if you want to compromise on the freedom that defines us as a country then don't paint yourself as a patriot.
5/9/2010 4:26 PM
swamphawk22
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There are certain realities. A free society allows people to move about and make purchases without anyone noticing. This is a benefit to a potential terrorist.

I opposed the Patriot Act. I oppose many things that Bush did to make us safe, that Obama is still doing.

You do have to make the choice. Freedom reduces safety. A wallmart loaded with stuff you can make bombs out of makes terror easier. I am willing to take that risk.
5/9/2010 6:50 PM
tark
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And yet you support the NRA
*cough* hypocrite *cough*
5/9/2010 7:49 PM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/09/2010There are certain realities. A free society allows people to move about and make purchases without anyone noticing. This is a benefit to a potential terrorist.I opposed the Patriot Act. I oppose many things that Bush did to make us safe, that Obama is still doing. You do have to make the choice. Freedom reduces safety. A wallmart loaded with stuff you can make bombs out of makes terror easier. I am willing to take that risk.

OK, this is an improvement. At least you've stopped using nonsense slogans like "freedom makes us weaker".

But, your position defending our freedom (even if you believe it makes us more vulnerable to terrorist attack) is irreconcilable with your defense of our use of torture (which involves the destruction of the only freedom that fundamentally matters).

The progress is nice to see, but you still have a long way to go, swamp.
5/9/2010 7:59 PM
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