One of the signs of the apocalypse

I never supported torture and you know it.

I defended the Bush position as being legal and Constitutional.

No War Crimes.

apologist, rationalizer. remember at one time slavery was constitutional so I guess it was ok according to swamp.
Anyway who cares about international conventions and rules of warfare if the conservatives, or more importantly swamp ok it it's alright. When exactly were you deified swamp?

Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 5/09/2010

Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/09/2010
There are certain realities. A free society allows people to move about and make purchases without anyone noticing. This is a benefit to a potential terrorist.

I opposed the Patriot Act. I oppose many things that Bush did to make us safe, that Obama is still doing.

You do have to make the choice. Freedom reduces safety. A wallmart loaded with stuff you can make bombs out of makes terror easier. I am willing to take that risk.

OK, this is an improvement. At least you've stopped using nonsense slogans like "freedom makes us weaker".

But, your position defending our freedom (even if you believe it makes us more vulnerable to terrorist attack) is irreconcilable with your defense of our use of torture (which involves the destruction of the only freedom that fundamentally matters).

The progress is nice to see, but you still have a long way to go, swamp

Why does any phrase that sounds good bother you. Freedom makes us waker, it is true. Why do you always need to get into definitions.

You are progressing also. Nice to see you actually talk about an issue instead of your usual quip and slam tactic.

Obama is copying Bush again with the SJC nominee. THROW ALL OF THE F*CKERS OUT!!!!

I think Cons got th best pick we could hope for with Obama.

I know she wrote that paper in college calling for a socialist revolution in America. I know she threw the military out of Harvard.

She also supported Bush positions dealing with non-traditional battlefield detentions. She seems to see the big picture and looks at the law with truly neutral eyes.

Replacing Stevens she will bring the court a little to the right, just what America wants Obama to do.

Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/09/2010I never supported torture and you know it.

Yes, you do. You just deny that it's torture.

Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 5/10/2010

Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/09/2010
I never supported torture and you know it.

Yes, you do. You just deny that it's torture

I deny that what the Bush administration did is criminal, and I deny that loud music and cool temps are torture.

I agree that torture can work, and that lives have been saved by what we did with detainees. I just believe that anything we gained was lost on the whole. The fact that people in the world can talk about this hurts America.

Quote: Originally posted by swamphawk22 on 5/10/2010I deny that what the Bush administration did is criminal

And you are wrong.

And that is possible. I think you are wrong and you think I am wrong.

God Bless America!

It's not "possible", it's fact.

If you want to make the "torture works and it was necessary for us to use it" argument, fine. But you're trying to make a "torture works and it was necessary for us to use it, except we didn't actually use it" argument, which is just pathetic.

Some things are torture and others are not. Reality.

Some things are green and others are not.

Some things are pathetic and others are not, too.

Nice to see you realize how disingenuous your own arguments are, as you try to talk about generic "things" rather than the specific acts which were committed in our names.

So it isnt possible for someone to sincerely believe that it was in some ways effective and still a bad policy but still not a violation of international law or the US constitution?

I think it's possible for someone to delude themselves in that fashion, yes. Doesn't mean I have to go along with the delusion.