• Kevin Durant and Steve Nash, current franchise player and head coach for the Brooklyn Nets
• Patrick Ewing and Anthony Mason, New York Knick legends (the NY Nets will play at MSG)
• Maurice Cheeks gained his fame as a 76er, but he played his last two years for the Knicks and Nets. The last game he ever started was for the Knicks. The last game he ever played was for the Nets

Posted by robusk on 11/8/2020 5:27:00 PM (view original):
@jpevans: I’m not at a computer so I can’t give you much insight but I’d rather give what I can than dive into the other stuff you are talking about. I see what you were trying to do with the build and I think it could be good. It feels like one elite guard short of a complete team (loosely related, I had Collison in season one and had to quit playing him halfway through. He doesn’t offer enough passing, defense or rebounding). I think it makes sense you feel a guard short because on average you drafted players 29 spots ahead of their ADP. If you push everyone from Whiteside on back a round, you probably could have ended up with a similar build that was a lot scarier. Still the defense will be great! I almost drafted Miller or Nurkic. Really unclear why you burned a 7th round pick on Smith, who iirc, didn’t even get drafted last season and now you aren’t even playing him at all. That is a premium pick.

goetz: I’ll have to look at your team later but I seem to recall you drafting a lot of players I was hoping to land. Not sure about the other stuff you included in your post. I don’t recall you actually saying much in the past but I don’t think being good is a prerequisite to chatting. Just look at jhsukow.

Posted by ashamael on 11/8/2020 5:18:00 PM (view original):
I’ve largely tried to refrain from commentary here because it seems that someone always gets offended by well meaning words. The limited stuff I’ve said, I’ve tried to be extra nice instead of helpful.

I’m not going to start now. I will say, however, that imagining that people are slighting your team and becoming very defensive about it usually means one of two things:

1) your team is bad by conventional wisdom
2) those people don’t see what you see

Prove it on the court. If it turns out it was in fact choice number 1, maybe revisit your decisions and how you reacted to commentary.

Also remember, every league has its bottom. Last year, it was Albi. This year, it looks pretty obvious to me, but I’m done with evals in this league until I feel like I prove myself here. Unless you finished in the top 3 or 5 both previous seasons, maybe you should take the same approach. And by you I mean everyone.

Despite that, there has been some solid criticism brought forth. It’s up to each individual to determine the extent they listen to said criticism.

Posted by jhsukow on 11/8/2020 6:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 11/8/2020 5:27:00 PM (view original):
@jpevans: I’m not at a computer so I can’t give you much insight but I’d rather give what I can than dive into the other stuff you are talking about. I see what you were trying to do with the build and I think it could be good. It feels like one elite guard short of a complete team (loosely related, I had Collison in season one and had to quit playing him halfway through. He doesn’t offer enough passing, defense or rebounding). I think it makes sense you feel a guard short because on average you drafted players 29 spots ahead of their ADP. If you push everyone from Whiteside on back a round, you probably could have ended up with a similar build that was a lot scarier. Still the defense will be great! I almost drafted Miller or Nurkic. Really unclear why you burned a 7th round pick on Smith, who iirc, didn’t even get drafted last season and now you aren’t even playing him at all. That is a premium pick.

goetz: I’ll have to look at your team later but I seem to recall you drafting a lot of players I was hoping to land. Not sure about the other stuff you included in your post. I don’t recall you actually saying much in the past but I don’t think being good is a prerequisite to chatting. Just look at jhsukow.

Posted by jpevans31 on 11/8/2020 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 11/8/2020 5:18:00 PM (view original):
I’ve largely tried to refrain from commentary here because it seems that someone always gets offended by well meaning words. The limited stuff I’ve said, I’ve tried to be extra nice instead of helpful.

I’m not going to start now. I will say, however, that imagining that people are slighting your team and becoming very defensive about it usually means one of two things:

1) your team is bad by conventional wisdom
2) those people don’t see what you see

Prove it on the court. If it turns out it was in fact choice number 1, maybe revisit your decisions and how you reacted to commentary.

Also remember, every league has its bottom. Last year, it was Albi. This year, it looks pretty obvious to me, but I’m done with evals in this league until I feel like I prove myself here. Unless you finished in the top 3 or 5 both previous seasons, maybe you should take the same approach. And by you I mean everyone.

Despite that, there has been some solid criticism brought forth. It’s up to each individual to determine the extent they listen to said criticism.

Constructive criticism doesn't get to me, Ash, I try to learn from it. If you paid attention to most of my posting history before the last couple rants, and the SMs we had my first few months on WiS, you would've gotten that long ago. I know I'm not great at draft leagues, and I have posted exactly that, "I'll have to prove it in the game."

I've just gotten tired of seeing the old-guard give each other constructive views, or the old negative comment then a positive comment to each other, while a good chunk of us get up the balls to post some good things we see in our team, and all we ever get is a, "Where's your assists?" On it's face, not a bad comment, but it leads someone to feeling like they have to post stats to defend their positivity, and it's every time, on the rare occasions someone responds to them. Meanwhile, the guys that are used to each other offer nuanced takes, like they took time to think about it. Then that's pretty much every draft in WiS.
So, there are guys offering thought-out insights to each other, then there are guys largely ignored who feel the need to defend their positive posts, because the few reactions they get are negative, yet offer no real substance. You don't think guys should be at all frustrated by that? But, that's how this is. I guess Robusk is right, I need a breather. GL this season, all.

And, dBKC, I never said cliques, I said good ol' boys club. Maybe no difference to you, but there is to me. The GoB club is generally just people that are so comfortable with a set of guys and going thru their motions, that they don't want to change it. They're generally respectful of all, but only really look after their group. I saw it a lot in the AF, it's where I learned the term, found out I was unknowingly part of one after the fact. To me, clique is a group of people setting themselves apart from others, and excluding them. The GoB club is just something that forms over time, and then nostalgia/dislike of change keeps it mostly the same.

Posted by dBKC on 11/8/2020 6:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jpevans31 on 11/8/2020 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 11/8/2020 5:18:00 PM (view original):
I’ve largely tried to refrain from commentary here because it seems that someone always gets offended by well meaning words. The limited stuff I’ve said, I’ve tried to be extra nice instead of helpful.

I’m not going to start now. I will say, however, that imagining that people are slighting your team and becoming very defensive about it usually means one of two things:

1) your team is bad by conventional wisdom
2) those people don’t see what you see

Prove it on the court. If it turns out it was in fact choice number 1, maybe revisit your decisions and how you reacted to commentary.

Also remember, every league has its bottom. Last year, it was Albi. This year, it looks pretty obvious to me, but I’m done with evals in this league until I feel like I prove myself here. Unless you finished in the top 3 or 5 both previous seasons, maybe you should take the same approach. And by you I mean everyone.

Despite that, there has been some solid criticism brought forth. It’s up to each individual to determine the extent they listen to said criticism.

Constructive criticism doesn't get to me, Ash, I try to learn from it. If you paid attention to most of my posting history before the last couple rants, and the SMs we had my first few months on WiS, you would've gotten that long ago. I know I'm not great at draft leagues, and I have posted exactly that, "I'll have to prove it in the game."

I've just gotten tired of seeing the old-guard give each other constructive views, or the old negative comment then a positive comment to each other, while a good chunk of us get up the balls to post some good things we see in our team, and all we ever get is a, "Where's your assists?" On it's face, not a bad comment, but it leads someone to feeling like they have to post stats to defend their positivity, and it's every time, on the rare occasions someone responds to them. Meanwhile, the guys that are used to each other offer nuanced takes, like they took time to think about it. Then that's pretty much every draft in WiS.
So, there are guys offering thought-out insights to each other, then there are guys largely ignored who feel the need to defend their positive posts, because the few reactions they get are negative, yet offer no real substance. You don't think guys should be at all frustrated by that? But, that's how this is. I guess Robusk is right, I need a breather. GL this season, all.

And, dBKC, I never said cliques, I said good ol' boys club. Maybe no difference to you, but there is to me. The GoB club is generally just people that are so comfortable with a set of guys and going thru their motions, that they don't want to change it. They're generally respectful of all, but only really look after their group. I saw it a lot in the AF, it's where I learned the term, found out I was unknowingly part of one after the fact. To me, clique is a group of people setting themselves apart from others, and excluding them. The GoB club is just something that forms over time, and then nostalgia/dislike of change keeps it mostly the same.

I hear where you’re coming from but I also think you should go back and look at Ash’s (and other’s) criticisms of my team in S1. I got flak for the Harden pick. Ash didn’t like my Donyell pick. Or my Jerry West pick until I explained it (which same goes for everyone else, feel free to explain yourself, you might change some minds), another member of the “GoB” didn’t like my Zo pick. Good thing is it doesn’t matter what they think. I got 2nd place and now all of those players are chalk at the selection that I set their price at. Go beat up on people and that’s all that will matter.

Anyway I like you as well as pretty much everyone else on here, let’s all chill. I hope you stick around in this league, I know you have what it takes to contend for the crown whether it’s this season or another.