Diagnostics for Leadoff Hitters II Topic

_nuke_
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Of course. More balls in play equal more hits.
Pitcher's abilities, K rates, and ERAs can all vary from year to year.
2/22/2008 11:05 AM
bosoxbill
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Gee, strikeout pitchers who started striking out fewer batters saw their ERAs climb?
Useful.
2/22/2008 11:06 AM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 2/22/2008
Gee, strikeout pitchers who started striking out fewer batters saw their ERAs climb?
Useful.
You're the one who said strikeouts have NO effect on runs scored. Sheesh.
2/22/2008 11:08 AM
_nuke_
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When compared to other outs, they don't.
2/22/2008 11:09 AM
kermit
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Pitchers who get worse pitch worse?
Weirrrd.
2/22/2008 11:12 AM
kermit
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I wonder if their WHIPs increased.
2/22/2008 11:12 AM
kermit
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I wonder if an increasing WHIP would have any effect on the expectation of ERA.
2/22/2008 11:12 AM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By kermit on 2/22/2008
Pitchers who get worse pitch worse?
Weirrrd.
But according to Bosux/Nuke, hitters who hit worse (more strikeouts) don't score worse.

Equally weirrrd.

2/22/2008 11:19 AM
_nuke_
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Todd...you're missing the point. All OUTS are the same. Pitchers with lower K rates allow more non-outs than pitchers with higher K rates.
2/22/2008 11:31 AM
bosoxbill
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Um... nobody has said that.
We're saying there's no reason, all other things being equal, to prefer Ks over another type of out. Or vice versa.
Might some hitters fare better with fewer Ks? Maybe. Those same guys might start hitting into more DPs, too... which might cancel it out any of the incremental gains of "putting the ball in play."
It takes playing with the run expectancy table to get a real appreciation for just how disastrous the DP is. It also shows how little you benefit from the "productive" out.
2/22/2008 11:34 AM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/22/2008

Todd...you're missing the point. All OUTS are the same. Pitchers with lower K rates allow more non-outs than pitchers with higher K rates.
Nuke... you're missing the point. ERAs are based on 27 outs. Apparently, all outs are not the same since lowering the percentage of strikeouts leads to an increase in ERA.
2/22/2008 11:37 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/22/2008
All OUTS are the same.


Except when they score/advance runners.
2/22/2008 11:39 AM
bosoxbill
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/22/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/22/2008

All OUTS are the same.



Except when they score/advance runners. Like strikeouts can.
And like groundouts can.
2/22/2008 11:40 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/21/2008

Or we could look at the relationship between strikeouts and runs. ALL strikeous and runs.
You know, the obvious one.
Or you can continue to ignore me because you know I'm right.



Sure. Here's the relationship between strikeouts and runs:

You don't score runs when you strikeout. You walk your no hittin' *** back to the dugout and hope the next player picks you up.

How's that?
2/22/2008 11:41 AM
bosoxbill
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 2/22/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/22/2008

Todd...you're missing the point. All OUTS are the same. Pitchers with lower K rates allow more non-outs than pitchers with higher K rates.
Nuke... you're missing the point. ERAs are based on 27 outs. Apparently, all outs are not the same since lowering the percentage of strikeouts leads to an increase in ERA.
Really? Still on that, huh?

Strikeout pitchers losing strikeouts, and their ERA gets worse? SHOCKING.

Pitchers who get worse have worse numbers? ASTONISHING.

This strange new learning amazes me. Maybe you should tell us, now, about how the earth is banana shaped.
2/22/2008 11:42 AM
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