Baseline prestige for all teams. Topic

namshub
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On the other hand pork, i hope it is acknowledged that baseline prestige certainly helps a coach/team maintain there success. There is more room for error when your baseline prestige is higher. Thus, teams that have a baseline prestige of A- or higer have an easier time of it to build a "dynasty". Of course, conference money comes into it also which baseline prestige affects. Lizak has a point, however, I think it was a little misstated in his post.
1/28/2010 12:01 PM
graham1
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Quote: Originally Posted By namshub on 1/28/2010On the other hand pork, i hope it is acknowledged that baseline prestige certainly helps a coach/team maintain there success. There is more room for error when your baseline prestige is higher. Thus, teams that have a baseline prestige of A- or higer have an easier time of it to build a "dynasty". Of course, conference money comes into it also which baseline prestige affects. Lizak has a point, however, I think it was a little misstated in his post.


I would argue it allows some to rest on their success. A-A+ programs should have a higher standard as they do in real life. There are several examples of programs coasting. I realize no one who pays there money wants to get fired at the job but I think firings should be stepped up. I'm only in one world but we have programs in major conferences that haven't had winning seasons in 10 years. Others haven't made it out of the second round in years and have strenght of schedules in the 250+ range.

With that said, no D1 coach who has been fired should have to go back to DII unless they want to. Somebody somwhere would always hire them.

1/28/2010 12:11 PM
zhawks
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Instead of quoting the few people who have said how impossible it is to improve prestige of a school far beyond its baseline, you're wrong.

Is it easy? No, is it possible, yes without a doubt. It takes more then 1 school / coach to do it but it is possible. I will find a link and add it to the end of this post to my Weber State team that you can use to look at the rest of the conference and their past prestiges to see it in action.

Also, it is tough to get beyond the A- range, but why is that so bad? Would anyone consider Gonzaga IRL more then a B+/A- range school? I wouldn't.

I agree on many points stated, my biggest thing is that I believe baseline prestige should start to change after 20 ish years of a world and use a smaller and smaller portion of 'Real Life Baseline' and more and more of a schools 'WIS Resume' to create some sort of new baseline for a school that helps dictate where the teams prestige lies on the A-F scale.

Weber State link

We had numerous coaches who did a fantastic job at their schools, gfox, davey, mets, uch, indiansrck, ams, hbmerlin, gomiami, naufan, gw and trustme. It is my all time favorite conference I have played in in HD.
1/28/2010 12:54 PM
acn24
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 1/28/2010
Instead of quoting the few people who have said how impossible it is to improve prestige of a school far beyond its baseline, you're wrong.

Is it easy? No, is it possible, yes without a doubt. It takes more then 1 school / coach to do it but it is possible. I will find a link and add it to the end of this post to my Weber State team that you can use to look at the rest of the conference and their past prestiges to see it in action.

Also, it is tough to get beyond the A- range, but why is that so bad? Would anyone consider Gonzaga IRL more then a B+/A- range school? I wouldn't.

I agree on many points stated, my biggest thing is that I believe baseline prestige should start to change after 20 ish years of a world and use a smaller and smaller portion of 'Real Life Baseline' and more and more of a schools 'WIS Resume' to create some sort of new baseline for a school that helps dictate where the teams prestige lies on the A-F scale.

Weber State link

We had numerous coaches who did a fantastic job at their schools, gfox, davey, mets, uch, indiansrck, ams, hbmerlin, gomiami, naufan, gw and trustme. It is my all time favorite conference I have played in in HD.

I disagree that it takes multiple coaches. You can definitely get a team to that level and keep it there, but it is much harder. When Manhattan in Tark was at the A- level Maj and I were the only humans in the conference. Maine in Allen was an A- team after I and they had 5 kids drafted without a lot of help from other teams in the conference.

Having a full conference to bring everyone's prestige up does provide a buffer, also in Allen, Montana and Yale will have a much easier time maintaining their A- prestiges because of the relative strength of the 2 conferences they are in.
1/28/2010 2:05 PM
zhawks
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acn, what i meant was it can take multiple coaches to keep the prestige steady even with an off year here or there, whereas with only a team or two it can be harder, sorry i was not specific.
1/28/2010 2:15 PM
alogman1
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Illinois is A+ with zero national championships...interesting. Whoever did the grades must have been an Illini fan.
1/28/2010 2:26 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By alogman1 on 1/28/2010Illinois is A+ with zero national championships...interesting. Whoever did the grades must have been an Illini fan.
They were actually a Dayton fan.
1/28/2010 2:28 PM
diablo11
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And a Mel Gibson fan
1/28/2010 2:39 PM
alogman1
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Boston College at A- is pretty bad too, but that was already mentioned. How about moving Notre Dame to the Big East? Dump St. John's to the A-10 move St. Louis to the Horizon and put Marquette in the Big 10. St. John's baseline prestige should be about D+.
1/28/2010 2:43 PM
zhawks
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Marquette in the Big 10 would make sense.
1/28/2010 2:48 PM
porkpower
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I always thought it would make more sense to move Marquette and S Florida to the Pac-10 and drop Hawaii to Sun Belt and Fresno to the Horizon. It throws geography out the window but puts those two teams in a BCS conference where they belong.
1/28/2010 2:54 PM
zhawks
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Hawaii shouldn't be in the Pac-10 it is so hard to compete there with all the disadvantages the island gives you.
1/28/2010 3:07 PM
Lizak
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We've had this conversation before.

I'm not saying it's impossible to have a good 5 or 6 years. But that's not a dynasty. I'm talking about a 10+ year run where you really get the program to the national level. What is always pointed out as a "dynasty" are really just good runs that when the coach had a chance, they went elsewhere. And that's where it always ends - the coach goes to a BCS. Not because he's getting a million dollar contract from them but because he can recruit so much easier.

I contend that doesn't happen because there's no margin for error. One down year drops you and 2 in a row and you are almost back to where you started. It only takes the last 4 seasons into account and those are heavily weighted towards the last 2.

Zhawks, for your career there at Ill., put that same career at a non-BCS and, you would be looking at a B prestige this season even though you won the NC 3 seasons ago. But at Ill, you can easily suffer through the down seasons and still keep going with an A+ prestige and the recruiting advantages it brings. Coaches aren't going to be perfect and will have the occasional down season. Few if any are going to want to rebuild a program multiple times.

It makes sense if you intend on always trying to replicate the real world. It suffers if you want to have a WhatIf game where players can have a real impact on the world. I've made it clear I prefer the Whatif aspects. I don't contend it's realistic because it's not. But just because something is realistic, doesn't mean it makes the game more fun.
1/28/2010 3:59 PM
alogman1
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How about swapping Gonzaga for Hawaii? Why not swap Fresno for UNLV - does Fresno really deserve to be a BCS school? At least UNLV had 90/91. As for S. Florida - S.Florida to the Big East, Providence to the A10, Charlotte to CUSA and Tulane to the Sun Belt, bingo! It's probably not even possible to switch up the conferences, but fun to think about.
1/28/2010 4:00 PM
cappelgp
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My biggest issue at this point is the fact that it seems impossible for the Ivy league in Allen to get past C+ prestige as a conference, despite finishing in the top 5 RPI wise for the past however many seasons (probably five or six), along with having multiple national champions in that timeframe. The SEC is still higher than us, despite having MUCH worse RPI as a conference. This dramatically limits the ability of teams in the conference to improve their own prestige.
1/28/2010 4:02 PM
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