This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

Quote: Originally Posted By jdno on 10/22/2009

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009 I view an eval as about 1/10th of the recruiting value of a hv, maybe even less.

Just because a hv is about 3x the cost of a eval doesn't mean a hv is worth 3x the recruiting value of an eval.

I never said this...plus we all know that the cost ratios float with distance, so there's no fixed ratio.

However, in D3 I got a D3 kid to consider me with 5 evals plus a few calls. I also know that 2 HVs plus a few calls can work. I also know that a single CV plus a few calls works.

So when you say an eval is 1/10 the value of a HV, that means I got a kid to consider me with the equivalent of half a HV, which doesn't seem right. In this D3 example, these 5 evals were on the first day of recruiting, not the waning hours where any love you show someone may be good enough to get them to consider you. So this is where I come back to the 5:1 ratio for eval:CV and about a 2:1 for HV:CV

Pulling down a player is completely different then recruiting a player, otherwise you'd be able to use HV/CV to do it. So your point does not work.

Pulling down a kid is about getting the kid to notice you, instead of recruiting a player where you go to the kids house to 'notice him' hence the reason that evals work to pulldown. So for you to say "It's about 1/2 a hv to pull a kid down" yeah I completely agree with that, because you haven't done any effort to 'recruit' the kid, you have just shown up at his games hoping he notices you. The difference is it is quite expensive to go to see numerous games of the kids as opposed to just going to his house (talking cost per 'recruting point' not cost per hv/st).

Quote: Originally Posted By srunstro on 10/22/2009

Quote: Originally posted by dalter on 10/22/2009

1. I too have seen people post that a letter grade difference makes you spend double. I have always felt this was an overexaggeration. I don't think a B- to C- would cause you to spend double.



Prestige seems to mean MUCH more in D1 than in the lower divisions.

In my experience, the "double" estimate is not far off in D1, but it is nowhere near that much in D2 or D3.

Very true srun, in the lower levels prestige helps but can easily be beat.

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009Pulling down a kid is about getting the kid to notice you, instead of recruiting a player where you go to the kids house to 'notice him' hence the reason that evals work to pulldown. So for you to say "It's about 1/2 a hv to pull a kid down" yeah I completely agree with that, because you haven't done any effort to 'recruit' the kid, you have just shown up at his games hoping he notices you. The difference is it is quite expensive to go to see numerous games of the kids as opposed to just going to his house (talking cost per 'recruting point' not cost per hv/st).

The D3 example I mentioned was to show that I've seen 5 evals work the same way as a CV or 2 HVs. And in the quoted part, you used the term pulldown, but the D3 example I gave wasn't a pulldown, just a regular D3 kid. But usually, a single HV early in the game won't get a D3 kid to consider you, so to think half a HV would work seems inconsistent as well. Thus, I think an eval is worth more than 1/10 of a HV.

I did extra evals here on this D1 kid trying to get him to consider me, and even though I went above whatever the minimum evals it would've taken, the extra evals get turned into underlying effort. Now we're trying to determine how many evals equal a HV or a CV.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

Quote: Originally Posted By jdno on 10/22/2009

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009 Pulling down a kid is about getting the kid to notice you, instead of recruiting a player where you go to the kids house to 'notice him' hence the reason that evals work to pulldown. So for you to say "It's about 1/2 a hv to pull a kid down" yeah I completely agree with that, because you haven't done any effort to 'recruit' the kid, you have just shown up at his games hoping he notices you. The difference is it is quite expensive to go to see numerous games of the kids as opposed to just going to his house (talking cost per 'recruting point' not cost per hv/st).

The D3 example I mentioned was to show that I've seen 5 evals work the same way as a CV or 2 HVs. And in the quoted part, you used the term pulldown, but the D3 example I gave wasn't a pulldown, just a regular D3 kid. But usually, a single HV early in the game won't get a D3 kid to consider you, so to think half a HV would work seems inconsistent as well. Thus, I think an eval is worth more than 1/10 of a HV.

I did extra evals here on this D1 kid trying to get him to consider me, and even though I went above whatever the minimum evals it would've taken, the extra evals get turned into underlying effort. Now we're trying to determine how many evals equal a HV or a CV

The reason giving a single HV doesn't always work is because usually kids reject the intial HV if you haven't sent a ST or something else to go along with it.

Evals are not anywhere near 1/3 the effectiveness of HVs.

Quote: Originally Posted By Fregoe on 10/22/2009is there a way to get old recruiting information? I meant to save my recruiting info for a sf I lost last season after spending 98K on him but must have forgot

Only if you win the recruit does the History tab stay for the kids Freshman year, so unfortunetly I do not believe so.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

This was an agonizing thread to read through for something that started out as a really interesting question. Maybe these are the takeaways for jdno, based on what everyone has said:

1) jdno's value ratio of eval/hv/cv does not seem to hold up

2) A guaranteed start seems to be pretty important

3) Prestige does not seem to be as important in D2 as it is in D1

4) Both coaches were forced to "waste" a significant number of evals (13 or 15) to get the player's attention, but jdno "wasted" too many extra evals that could have been HVs or CVs. (By the way, you have to read wronoj's history from the bottom up, meaning that the evals processed before the HVs and guarantees).

5) Evals are extremely important in some parts of the recruting process, but may have far less recruiting value from the standpoint of landing a player.



Here's my take:

At the end of the day, if you eliminate 15 evals from each side and then compare the relative effort, you get the following: an almost identical dollar spend.

• If the theory holds that evals have much less recruiting value in landing the player once you are on his radar, then his spending may have been maximzed by 15% or 20% over yours, which would be all he needs to overcome much of the geographic cost differences for HV and CV (~30%).
• If the theory holds that prestige is not that important at D2, then it becomes a closer battle.
• If guaranteed minutes and guaranteed starts are valuable, then wronoj has a significant advantage there.
• wronoj may also have timed it perfectly if he offered the evals, the HVs, the minutes, and the start all in the same cycle where the evals triggered his interest and then was immediately hit with recruiting value.

Not saying that all of these 'ifs' are verifiable or even accurate, but I think jdno and the rest of us learned quite a bit from the exchanges.

The kid just wanted a view of the campus, but he never got one so he said screw it.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.