Quote: Originally Posted By cal_bears on 5/09/2010I'm with you vandy and emy. I refuse to run out of principle, the principle that no team ever has played full court press the way it's run here. Lately, I have begun to think it is "magic" because SIM gives undue credit to all those double teams listed in the boxscore. An equally distributed starting five SHOULD not be putting up shots against doubleteams EVER. If they have IQS, they will always find the open man, and in FCP there is always an open man

Quote: Originally posted by Weena on 2/24/2010I have more trouble against M2M. The Press can be broken but but if you are outmatched in a M2M there is not much you can do.

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 5/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/08/2010

I refuse to run a straight FCP out of general principle (although I admit, I have been experimenting with a combo D with some of my teams). To me, and this is just one man's opinion, the FCP is way out of whack as far as it's effectiveness.

Even with my best teams under this ID (and my dcy ID), when I face a FCP team that is even close to the same talent level as mine, I go into the game fully expecting to lose.

I'll say again what I said in an earlier post: a FCP team that has bad IQ's, or bad DEF ratings, or is slower than the team they are facing should be getting shredded, consistently. A team that runs the FCP with dominant ratings should be an absolute nightmare to face. It just seems to me, and again this is just my opinion, that average teams running the FCP turn into great teams, just because of the defense they run.

To me, a FCP team that has ATH/SPD, but not the defense to go with it, is just a team of track stars. Sure, they can get to the ball fast, but without the defense to go with it, they should be hacking and fouling damn near every time. WIS' definition of the Def rating is the fundamentals and desire to play defense. Bad defensive rating equals no desire and no fundamentals which should equal tons of lay-ups and/or fouls. Doesn't happen though.......

wow, i had no idea that someone else also wouldnt run the press out of general principle against its ridiculous effectiveness. its almost like i wrote that post, as ive been ridiculing the track-star based emphasis of HD in general ever since a certain couple coaches became extremely dominant exploiting that a couple years back.

seble said in the dev chat that he thinks press as a primary set should go away, this should be done prior to the release if he truly wants to improve the game

Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/08/2010
I refuse to run a straight FCP out of general principle (although I admit, I have been experimenting with a combo D with some of my teams). To me, and this is just one man's opinion, the FCP is way out of whack as far as it's effectiveness.

Even with my best teams under this ID (and my dcy ID), when I face a FCP team that is even close to the same talent level as mine, I go into the game fully expecting to lose.

I'll say again what I said in an earlier post: a FCP team that has bad IQ's, or bad DEF ratings, or is slower than the team they are facing should be getting shredded, consistently. A team that runs the FCP with dominant ratings should be an absolute nightmare to face. It just seems to me, and again this is just my opinion, that average teams running the FCP turn into great teams, just because of the defense they run.

To me, a FCP team that has ATH/SPD, but not the defense to go with it, is just a team of track stars. Sure, they can get to the ball fast, but without the defense to go with it, they should be hacking and fouling damn near every time. WIS' definition of the Def rating is the fundamentals and desire to play defense. Bad defensive rating equals no desire and no fundamentals which should equal tons of lay-ups and/or fouls. Doesn't happen though.......



Amen. The d rating should have more impact. A m2m with great ath speed and d should be a nightmare to face as well. That does not happen either.

Will the new engine change this?

Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 5/08/2010one of the reasons I tried to convince selbe to run ratings adjusted to each world, was with one set of ratings, a substantial test could be done to normalize results - seble would have to do this - could not give it to testers becasue it would give a way too much of the games secrets.

I wanted all ratings normalized to the current d2 system.

as a test, a pair of identical dead avg teams could play each other 1000 times running identical offenses and defenses, then run zone vs man, zone vs fcp, etc until all the combinations were run with statistically identical results w/i a margin for error.

that would be half the project. The next half would be to tweek one team in the 'right' areas, so still identical, but so press would be enhanced. In this case, for 1000 sims, the pressing team should be better. Then the 'tweeked team should run zone and man, in this case the results should be worse.

the team should then be tweeked for zone enhancement, and the same tests should be done.

finally the team should be tweeked for man enhancement, and the same tests should be done.

At the end of the day, my guess is this would take nearly 3-6 months, but we realistically would have a better game.

feel free to rip this idea apart, not meant to be cannon, more as an exercise to stimulate thought

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 5/14/2010Ill add to Mully's point and say that of course the numbers are big 45 of the 64 teams in the tournament played the press to begin with (10 or less played some combo, but I lost track while counting); the Tark tournament pretty much went the way of chalk so it happened that the top teams played press. I think everyones convinced themselves at this point that its magic and youre seeing a higher % of team (a large majority) playing the press as a result


This says an awful lot, don't you think?