OT: Tourny Expansion 2011 Topic

schroedess26
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Quote: Originally posted by sublightd on 3/22/2010I love college b-ball. But I'll be done watching the NCAA tournament when they expand. I'll never go to another site game again,even though Spokane and Portland are right next to me. Not that they'll miss me with their massive t.v. contract, but they'll lose a fan for life when this gets put in.
Fine with me and I am pretty sure the NCAA can survive without the 1,000 to 5,000 people that leave because of this.

What is wrong with getting more mid-major schools into the tourney? I know that some Power Conference schools will sneak in but there will also be Mid-Majors that right now should be in but can't make it because of the way teams are structured.

This is a list of the next schools that missed the tourney but would be in a 96 team tourney by RPI, not exact science but it gives you an idea of who would make it in most likely.

40 Rhode Island Atl10
43 Wichita St. Mvc
45 UAB Cusa
47 Kent St. Midam
53 Memphis Cusa
54 Dayton Atl10
55 Mississippi St. Sec
58 William and Mary Coln
59 Virginia Tech Acc
60 Seton Hall Bige
61 Mississippi Sec
63 Arizona St. Pac10
64 Connecticut Bige
65 Cincinnati Bige
66 VA Commonwealth Coln
67 Marshall Cusa
68 Tulsa Cusa
71 South Florida Bige
72 Texas Tech Big12
73 Nevada Wac
74 Illinois Big10
75 Northeastern Coln
76 Illinois St. Mvc
77 Charlotte Atl10
78 Louisiana Tech Wac
79 Portland Wcc
80 Wright St. Horiz
81 Fairfield Maac
82 St. John's Bige
83 IUPUI Midco
84 Morehead St. Ovc

Run Down of Conferences In
Power Conferences (11) ACC (1), Big 10 (1), Big 12 (1), Big East (5), Pac 10 (1), SEC (2)
Mid Majors/Small Conf (20 Total) A10(3), Colonial (3), CUSA (4), MVC (2), WAC (2), Plus others with 1 bid

Really in the end the Big East would have a Million teams in each year but there would also be another 18+ mid-majors that would make it as well each year or 20 this year.
3/23/2010 2:45 AM
gbous314
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exactly schroeds. It helps level the playing field for the mid-majors, gives more mid-majors a chance to take down a big school even tho theyll have to play another mid-major in the play in game most likely. It will be good for college basketball and everyone involved and fans that are opposed to it now will come around when we have more major upsets in years to come.
3/23/2010 3:05 AM
gbous314
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Regular season will not be irrelevant for power conferences. Power conferences will be playing for a 1-8 seed or whatever they decide to get a bye in the first round. There are still a lot of power conference schools that would not be in the range if they did auto bid for reg-season conf. champ
3/23/2010 3:06 AM
chewchad
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schroedess, i think you and others are missing 1 major thing, these mid major teams DO NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Here is a list:

09 UNC, 08 Kansas, 07 Florida, 06 Florida, 05 UNC, 04 UConn, 03 Syracuse, 02 Maryland, 01 Duke, 00 Mich St, 99 UConn, 98 Kentucky, etc.

In fact, you could MAYBE say UNLV was a smallish school in 1990 or MAYBE NC State in 1983 (but still a major conference).

We are wasting our time by expanding the field. Cinderellas are fun all the way to sweet 16 or elite 8, but reality is no one wants to watch Cornell and Northern Iowa play for a National Championship.

Since when does every team DESERVE a right to the NCAA tourney? I would argue its the best playoff system in sports. We dont have 7 game series, somewhat neutral courts, etc. Why do we need to allow half of the schools in this thing? I think people that are ******** about the way its setup need to go ruin another sport and leave college basketball the hell alone.
3/23/2010 3:08 AM
gbousley314
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3/23/2010 3:27 AM
schroedess26
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Quote: Originally posted by chewchad on 3/23/2010schroedess, i think you and others are missing 1 major thing, these mid major teams DO NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!Here is a list:09 UNC, 08 Kansas, 07 Florida, 06 Florida, 05 UNC, 04 UConn, 03 Syracuse, 02 Maryland, 01 Duke, 00 Mich St, 99 UConn, 98 Kentucky, etc.In fact, you could MAYBE say UNLV was a smallish school in 1990 or MAYBE NC State in 1983 (but still a major conference).We are wasting our time by expanding the field.  Cinderellas are fun all the way to sweet 16 or elite 8, but reality is no one wants to watch Cornell and Northern Iowa play for a National Championship.  Since when does every team DESERVE a right to the NCAA tourney?  I would argue its the best playoff system in sports.  We dont have 7 game series, somewhat neutral courts, etc.   Why do we need to allow half of the schools in this thing?  I think people that are ******** about the way its setup need to go ruin another sport and leave college basketball the hell alone.

So cut the field to down to 16 teams or possibly 32 with no auto-bids and let them go at it. If all you want it a champion the NCAA does not have that right now. Only 10 teams really have a shot each year.

So why have 64/65 teams in the tourney then? Can you give me an explanation? How many teams do you think should be in the tournament?
3/23/2010 3:30 AM
gbousley314
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I mean, the only argument I see is that there is this idea that we don't let more teams in because it's a "sissy way of doing things". If it's better for everyone involved, why not do it? You can frame it saying it's all about money or whatever, but I have history on my side saying that the tournament has expanded 10 times. I don't think less people have started watching the tournament due to any of those expansions. Just a thought guys.
3/23/2010 3:39 AM
gbous314
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You also forgot Villanova, part of the then newly-formed "East 8" conference. They were an 8 seed in 1985 and won the national championship.
3/23/2010 3:44 AM
gbous314
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Indiana St. Made it to the championship in 1979. They were a mid-major that couldn't win a championship? How bout San Francisco back in the 50s with Bill Russell? If we want more recent examples, we got Memphis (even though their title game has been stripped), UMass (vacated but got to final four), George Mason (final four).
3/23/2010 3:50 AM
gbous314
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Power conference teams have been the beneficiaries of nice schedules, media exposure (Dickie V playing up teams like Duke who shouldn't have even been the 1 seed), and general favoritism, yet mid-majors have still had some huge upsets and strung a couple of games together. It is amazing that they have even done THAT, considering how much is going against them.
3/23/2010 3:53 AM
alblack56
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Quote: Originally Posted By chewchad on 3/23/2010
We are wasting our time by expanding the field. Cinderellas are fun all the way to sweet 16 or elite 8, but reality is no one wants to watch Cornell and Northern Iowa play for a National Championship.



I think ratings would be at an all-time high is Cornell met Northern Iowa in the final. What a story!
3/23/2010 4:22 AM
gomiami1972
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I sure as hell would want to watch it. I think virtually every college basketball fan in the country would watch it as well. It would be a miracle.
3/23/2010 4:42 AM
AlCheez
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Quote: Originally Posted By alblack56 on 3/23/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By chewchad on 3/23/2010

We are wasting our time by expanding the field. Cinderellas are fun all the way to sweet 16 or elite 8, but reality is no one wants to watch Cornell and Northern Iowa play for a National Championship.




I think ratings would be at an all-time high is Cornell met Northern Iowa in the final. What a story!
Unlikely. Like all sports, the "big boys" drive the TV ratings. I seem to recall the George Mason Final Four game doing some of the worst ratings. All the serious college hoops fans would watch, sure, but they aren't what drive ratings, since they mostly will watch any matchup.
3/23/2010 5:48 AM
schroedess26
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Well I watched George Mason in the Final Four I can't remember any other time since 2000 when my Badgers made the Final Four that I watched the games.

I usually catch every game I possibly can from CT week up until the elite 8 then its pretty boring having Duke, Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, and a couple others always there every single year.

Oh ya I did watch Marquette in 2003 as well when D-Wade was on the team, the year "We Are Marquette" chant came about.
3/23/2010 6:03 AM
metsmax
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96 is too much - 68 will work fine - see thread on 68

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/threads.asp?ForumID=30&TopicID=409353&PagePosition=3

Lots of discussion of going to 96 teams - basically tomake more money with another round of games to televise. But, the argument is well made that this would put a lot of teams into the Dance that truly did not excel by any measure.

Still, is the current 65 teams the right answer?

No - the better answer is a 68 team tournament and here is how it works

Seed the at large and automatic bids, but the lowest AT LARGE slot in each gets two teams - it would be slots 12A and 12B or 13A and 13B however it works out

Get rid of the annoying playin game between the bottom two automatics - and instead we have four games on Tuesday - Play In Tuesday.....or Last Chance Tuesday....or whatever. The teams that would otherwise be the last four in and the last four out play each other to decide who gets in - a competitive solution.

Matchups might be something like

Minn v Miss State

Utah State v Illinois

Florida v Va Tech

Wake v Seton Hall

An afternoon and evening of great tv, but just the 8 teams at the margin.

68 is the answer
3/23/2010 9:39 AM
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