Quote: Originally posted by torrone on 4/11/2010I kinda like this idea. The NBA does it for he bottom 6 I think. Maybe not for all non-playoff teams, but maybe the bottom 10. At least you would not be guaranteed the #1 pick by playing to lose.

If its a lottery, I agree the pool should be limited to a smaller number of teams - maybe 5 or 8. And each team should have the same odds. If it's weighted like the NBA the worst team is still most likely to get 1 or 2 (unless your the Knicks.. uhem).

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If an owner knows he will be booted from a world, he wont tank. No more incentives necessary.

As you know, you can tank without being obvious.

Reverse the bottom 10. 10, 9, 8..... and reverse the next 6. 16, 15, 14....

Of course, owners will "game" that system but you'll have a bunch of owners trying to finish 10th or 16th. Beats the hell out of owners making sure they're the worst or in the bottom 16.

Draft lottery ok. All non-playoff teams. Unweighted (ie. all have an equal shot at #1)

Playoff teams get seeded based on record

If no one notices that you are tanking, you are probably just re-building.

Incorrect. You can notice it without being able to prove it. I'll use ATL in MG.

Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	1	$84.8M	95-67 (.586)	1	X
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	2	$84.3M	95-67 (.586)	2	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	3	$89.8M	82-80 (.506)	4	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	4	$75.9M	78-84 (.481)	4	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	5	$94.3M	86-76 (.531)	3	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	6	$96.1M	90-72 (.556)	3	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	7	$99.0M	100-62 (.617)	1	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	8	$103.5M	96-66 (.593)	2	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	9	$97.8M	84-78 (.519)	3	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	10	$92.1M	86-76 (.531)	3	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	11	$88.4M	76-86 (.469)	3	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	12	$78.6M	67-95 (.414)	4	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	13	$62.8M	59-103 (.364)	4	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	14	$41.8M	55-107 (.340)	4	-
Moonlight Graham	ATL Black Crackers	15	-	79-79 (.500)	-	-

A blind man can see what he's been doing. We had a rather heated exchange at the end of last season about it. He had 10m in unused payroll in S13 and 30m in S14. He knows 55 was the minimum win limits. He's stated he doesn't care about the playoffs only the WS. He's used a lot of suspect players but they were/are of bottom end BL quality. He improved this season because he knew he was on the hot seat. We changed the minimum to include three season/187 wins. Once he hit 185, he's gone 7-17 or so. He's tanking. I know it. He knows it. The world knows it. But I'd play hell trying to prove it.

Have you tried to remove him? If you go to admin, guns blazing, I would tend to think theyd honor your request to remove him given that youve had exchanges about it.

If you are before rollover (I think you are) follow the WIS procedures and see how it plays out.

Quote: Originally Posted By dmurphy104 on 4/14/2010

Have you tried to remove him? If you go to admin, guns blazing, I would tend to think theyd honor your request to remove him given that youve had exchanges about it.

If you are before rollover (I think you are) follow the WIS procedures and see how it plays out.

Where are the WIS procedures for this kind of stuff. I know they just updated the rules for booting owners out of a league but I can't seem to find it anywhere?? I may be blind though-- A little help please?

I've sent a ticket to see if it's worth the fight. He voluntarily offered to leave after the season during the FA signing period(after a couple of exchanges in sitemail that I didn't save). It seems he's changed his mind as he has an asterisk by his name.

Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 4/14/2010As you know, you can tank without being obvious.  Reverse the bottom 10.  10, 9, 8..... and reverse the next 6.  16, 15, 14....Of course, owners will "game" that system but you'll have a bunch of owners trying to finish 10th or 16th.   Beats the hell out of owners making sure they're the worst or in the bottom 16.

I'd say either just have a regular lottery, with all 20 teams having an equal shot at each draft position, or reverse the order entirely for the first 20, meaning the best team that didn't make the playoffs gets the #1 pick, and the team with the worst record gets the #20 pick. If Admin did this and limited the amount of money in prospect to 20m, this would solve all tanking problems. No one would have any incentive to tank.

I think keeping owners "engaged" is the key. Maybe they're just trying to balance wins/losses to finish 10th but they're paying attention. I think once you get tankers paying attention for 162, they'll see the game is more fun if you're playing for 3 months instead of putting a team together and just checking in to make sure you're not removed.

That's definitely part of it, but even owners that are engaged have incentives that are distorted. With 5-10 games in Moneyball I was clumped in a group of 7-8 teams that were definitely not going to make the playoffs. We all had about the same record. I had every incentive to pack it in and try for the best possible draft slot next season. I didn't do that, and as a result I am now drafting 14th instead of potentially 6th. How do we get around this conundrum without a lottery? I know it was in my best interest to lose those games long term.

By having teams play for 10th and 16th place. The 1-9 teams would have needed wins.

Perhaps - I would rather that the incentives always push teams towards winning. If we completely inverted the draft order for the 20 non-playoff teams, everyone would be trying to win.