Diamonds in the rough Topic

sanderbear
Posts: 64 (0)
Hall of Famer
64 17
Prospect
I thought that was true, and adjusted my draft for the lower-round picks -- a 90 makeup was a tiebreaker over a similar guy with a 50 makeup. But my DITRs have actually had makeup ranging from high 50s to 99. So other than the really low makeup guys, don't know if it matters.
6/21/2010 1:05 PM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect
i think what bothers alot of owners about DITR's is that we do never see those great stories where a guy gets picked in the 13th round and turns out to have a hall of fame career as one of the best right handed hitters of all time, like Albert Pujols.  These are the great stories we have in sports when you have those guys who are few and far between like Kurt Warner or Mike Piazza who come out of absolutely nowhere to become hall of famers. 

Think about how excited an owner gets if he gets a former DITR to the majors or even onto an all-star team

the counter is that owners would complain they didn't get one and another owner did, particularly if they were very rare (which they should be, they are in real life) but i don't buy that...i think owners would support a mechanism that would enable DITRs to very rarely be potential hall of famers, this jealousy bit is overrated although it may be a very vocal minority...

no need to change the theoretical talent pool either...simply have one less all star talent type guys in the draft every year and make him instead a random late draftee...DITR him a year later assuming the owner takes care of him...this will give owners incentive to maintain their minors a little better and sign their draft picks

so the world itself doesn't get anything for free (there is no increase in the theoretical talent pool coming in from the draft) but an owner does get something for free essentially.  I think it'd be kind of cool because after all it does happen in real life where a star simply falls into a team's lap.

Another objection would be the element of randomness in it, removing skill from the equation.  But baseball itself is a game of incredible luck, sports in general are.  It has so much more to do with the outcomes we see than anyone wants to believe.  The best team does not win the world series every year, in fact they usually don't.  You can have 2 pitchers on the same team and have one go 20-7 with a 4.00 ERA and the other go 12-12 with a 3.50 ERA, that's randomness and it rules baseball.  Joe DiMaggio's streak was simply an aberration, a random fluky event that simply happens once every hundred years or so.  For realism's sake I wouldn't mind a little more randomness, we already have a ton. 
6/21/2010 3:28 PM
rebelt
Posts: 61 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 70
Prospect
Posted by schuyler101 on 6/21/2010 3:28:00 PM (view original):
i think what bothers alot of owners about DITR's is that we do never see those great stories where a guy gets picked in the 13th round and turns out to have a hall of fame career as one of the best right handed hitters of all time, like Albert Pujols.  These are the great stories we have in sports when you have those guys who are few and far between like Kurt Warner or Mike Piazza who come out of absolutely nowhere to become hall of famers. 

Think about how excited an owner gets if he gets a former DITR to the majors or even onto an all-star team

the counter is that owners would complain they didn't get one and another owner did, particularly if they were very rare (which they should be, they are in real life) but i don't buy that...i think owners would support a mechanism that would enable DITRs to very rarely be potential hall of famers, this jealousy bit is overrated although it may be a very vocal minority...

no need to change the theoretical talent pool either...simply have one less all star talent type guys in the draft every year and make him instead a random late draftee...DITR him a year later assuming the owner takes care of him...this will give owners incentive to maintain their minors a little better and sign their draft picks

so the world itself doesn't get anything for free (there is no increase in the theoretical talent pool coming in from the draft) but an owner does get something for free essentially.  I think it'd be kind of cool because after all it does happen in real life where a star simply falls into a team's lap.

Another objection would be the element of randomness in it, removing skill from the equation.  But baseball itself is a game of incredible luck, sports in general are.  It has so much more to do with the outcomes we see than anyone wants to believe.  The best team does not win the world series every year, in fact they usually don't.  You can have 2 pitchers on the same team and have one go 20-7 with a 4.00 ERA and the other go 12-12 with a 3.50 ERA, that's randomness and it rules baseball.  Joe DiMaggio's streak was simply an aberration, a random fluky event that simply happens once every hundred years or so.  For realism's sake I wouldn't mind a little more randomness, we already have a ton. 
This is exactly what I was getting at earlier. The teams who draft these guys like Piazza who end up being all stars didn't do a ton of homework on their 62nd round pick, but they still ended up with a fantastic player. Yes, the vast majority of guys taken in the top few rounds of the HBD draft hit the projections and are valuable, but that doesn't mean a random DITR who becomes an all-star or even a serviceable ML player isn't a nice addition to the game.


Why some people take these things so personally is just beyond me. It's a damn game---lets have fun with it.
6/21/2010 3:54 PM
deathinahole
Posts: 4139 (0)
Hall of Famer
76 2 1 42 1 75
Prospect
I don't think it's personal, I just think they're pointing out that you want HBD to be craps.

Most people don't want an online strategy game to be craps. And because the powers that be read this, vehement opposition to a dumb idea is rather important.
6/21/2010 4:12 PM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect
rebelt - i agree...

and some will say well the dodgers drafted Piazza because they scouted better.

really he was drafted as a favor to his father from I think LaSorda...so he really did completely fall into their laps...

dean - do you want the best team to win every season?  baseball and sports in general is not as random as craps, but it is pretty fluky

The draft itself and how automatic it is bothers me as well...give me more randomness, it rules our lives!
6/21/2010 5:03 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Suggestions about improving DITR are usually based on the premise that "the current system isn't working", when in fact it's doing EXACTLY what it's supposed to do, which is make a handful of already mediocre players a little better.  There are no promises beyond that.

Most of the proponents of changing DITR to get the Piazza's of the world in the late rounds tend to conveniently ignore the near certainty of first-round picks making it to and sticking in the major leagues for a fairly lengthy career, which does NOT happen in MLB.  So they want to have their cake, and be able to eat it too.

The only reasonable way to "fix" (their term, not mine) the DITR process to give you late round Piazza's would be to overhaul the entire draft process, with "fuzzy" ratings (scale of 1-8 instead of 0-100) so that you get more first round busts (because it was difficult to determine how good they were to begin with) and more late round gems.

But as we've seen with ADMINs track record, drastic overhauls of parts of the system often introduce unintended consequences which create, at least in the short term, many more problems than what was being "fixed" in the first place.  And then EVERYBODY is whiney and complaining.
6/21/2010 5:05 PM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/20/2010 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Not sure if you've noticed in your 4 seasons but the HBD draft is nothing like the MLB draft.   So, please, in the future, do not make that comparison.

Briefly, 100% of 1st round HBD picks should make the bigs and have a nice career.    I can randomly choose any MLB draft and find that half of the players chosen in the first round never played a full season in the bigs.

See above Ref:  MLB draft vs. HBD draft

That should be the end of  "But what about Piazza!??!" nonsense. 

On another point, HBD doesn't even have a 62nd round.

6/21/2010 5:46 PM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect
Like i said above "The draft itself and how automatic it is bothers me as well...give me more randomness, it rules our lives!"

I am not one of those proponents that ignore the first round certainty.  I do not want to have my cake and eat it too, I really wish we could somehow move towards a draft where 1/2 the first rounders don't make the bigs.  The whole late round thing "Mike Piazza/Albert Pujols" goes hand in hand with first round busts, and it really isn't ideal to have one without the other (although you could).  I really don't see why we shouldn't be aiming to bring this closer to real life.   Why is that not the ideal?

But it may all sort of be a pipe dream because you are right tec, admin has had some difficulties with massive overhauls like this.
6/21/2010 6:25 PM
strikeout26
Posts: 6524 (0)
Hall of Famer
129 1 47
Prospect
Check out Tim Beckham's stats. He was the #1 overall pick in 2008. I bet the same people that want more Major league caliber DITR's, would be pretty ticked if there #1 overall produced stats like his.
6/21/2010 8:31 PM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect
Posted by strikeout26 on 6/21/2010 8:32:00 PM (view original):
Check out Tim Beckham's stats. He was the #1 overall pick in 2008. I bet the same people that want more Major league caliber DITR's, would be pretty ticked if there #1 overall produced stats like his.
i'm sure the Rays aren't too happy with his production either...but that's baseball

i'd like to play a truer baseball simulation, doesn't anyone else?

i've had teams that had the best record in my league but didn't make the world series, but that's life...

am i the only one who thinks having the number one pick guaranteeing owners a future all-star (or better) is simply too predictable?  what fun is that?

more busts, spread the stars throughout the draft, let's not concentrate them in the top half of the first round...
6/21/2010 9:01 PM
strikeout26
Posts: 6524 (0)
Hall of Famer
129 1 47
Prospect
I agree with you. I am just saying that you can't have garuantees in the 1st round of the draft and the Piazza's of the world. Alot of times it seems that is what people want. I would love a little more fuzziness in the game. I don't even think that 20M in scouting should garuantee accurate results. The Ray's have done a very good job in the draft. I am sure that they spend alot of money on it, but look at what they got in 2008. Who knows, Tim Beckham may turn into a future HOFer, but I watched him play in HS and was not impressed at all.
6/21/2010 9:36 PM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect

you're right, so far he doesn't seem very impressive and hasn't moved past Hi-A ball...

pretty amazing that you saw him play in high school and weren't impressed, doesn't speak too well for the Rays picking him first overall...recent years they've done pretty well in the draft...

6/21/2010 10:05 PM
strikeout26
Posts: 6524 (0)
Hall of Famer
129 1 47
Prospect
When I say that I wasnt impressed, I mean that I did not feel he was the best player in that draft. He was still a very solid player, with very good tools.
6/21/2010 10:20 PM
apollo7
Posts: 429 (0)
Hall of Famer
40 91 36
Prospect
I think in all this my point was lost entirely.  My point was that it should be made into a MORE FUN AND USEFUL part of the game, that's all.   It is a very simple and straightforward point.  Who cares if it is something for nothing if everyone gets equal benefit from it.  Isn't this game supposed to be fun?
6/22/2010 12:10 PM
antonsirius
Posts: 2567 (0)
Hall of Famer
167 135 9 20
Prospect
Fun? This is HBD.
6/22/2010 12:13 PM
◂ Prev 1|2|3|4|5...12 Next ▸
Diamonds in the rough Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.