"Eating a contract" Topic

philogenemay
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The player I'm trading for is not AA. He is 71vsR and overall a better hitter and fielder than my current 1B.

And I don't mind honest opinions, but if the logic laid out is poor and irrelevant to the issue I will call it out.
10/23/2010 6:29 PM
isack24
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Posted by strikeout26 on 10/23/2010 6:20:00 PM (view original):
I dont know much about Cobbfather's turnover rate. I did see quite a bit of imbalance with quite a few 100+ win teams and quite a few 100+ losses teams, but I will take your world that it is a good world. I might have missed something when I did a quick glance, but I did not see any selling of players in Cobbfather. The most that I saw was some contracts being covered. Would a trade of BL talent for AA talent to get rid of a contract go through in your world?

Two 100-win teams last year and four 100-loss teams (none much more than 100).  One of the 100-loss teams was a 100-win team not long ago, and just had a big talent turnover.  One was a new owner.  There was a bigger talent discrepancy a few seasons ago, I think.

Not necessarily, I suppose.  There are some pretty vigilant owners who check things like that, although not all of us agree.  A lot of times we can bring that type of thing to the board, explain our positions, and it gets worked out.  Fact is, we have at most three or four teams open when we roll, so there most of us trust that the scenario Mike proposed won't happen.

10/23/2010 6:40 PM
dmurphy104
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the deal was vetoed. Here are the players involved. I dont think the world disapproved of philo trying to free up space. It was a sim-assigned contract that he inherited. Just that he got no value in return AND threw in 2 prospects. In tc, one of philo's justifications is that he is getting back a better hitter and fielder than his current 1b. If that's the case, why give up a better hitter than fielder than you are getting back in addition to giving up Boone? There's no reason Phillips couldnt play 1b.

The fact that you were giving up 2 additional players that were better than what you were getting back  is what pushed me to veto this. Boone's salary may be a liability..But its the last year of the deal.

Bailey Boone

Jesus Flores

Stewart Phillips

for

Gary Snyder
10/23/2010 11:28 PM
plague
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I would of vetoed that trade myself, especially considering Boone is in the last season of his contract. I imagine he could of done better than that deal. If he had said in world chat he was going to take the best offer for those 3 players and he got no offers I would consider not vetoing that trade...

.I generally don't believe someone should be held hostage to a player if someone is willing to take player off his hand, but the owner has to go that extra mile to get the best offer. Let the free market work in this situation.
10/24/2010 12:05 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by philogenemay on 10/23/2010 5:26:00 PM (view original):

Mike there is no way that you can argue that this trade is bad for this world. 
 

Sure, we can create elaborate and unrealistic scenarios, but let's talk about this trade.


Which goes to the heart of my inquiry. If a trade isn't bad for the world or a vet raping a newb, why veto?
I didn't realize you were asking about a specific trade.   You didn't list players.

Nonetheless, your trade and my example both fall into the "I just want that contract off my books" category.  Therein lies the problem.    Sounds like you'd be against the example I offered.   So you've drawn a line with the "I just want that contract off my books" trades.   That's exactly what I did.

Before I ever created a world, I followed the other worlds to see what created problems.  Other than personality conflicts, which you can't do anything about, the implosions were always caused by trade approval/veto.  So I'm all about consistent trade approval/veto.   Allowing owner A to make a trade and vetoing owner B's similar deal is not consistent.   Therefore, you're begging for trouble.
10/24/2010 6:47 AM
MikeT23
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Now, seeing the players, I wouldn't have vetoed.   Snyder is of BL-quality.   I'd call you a dumbass but I'd have approved the deal.
10/24/2010 8:12 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by isack24 on 10/23/2010 5:03:00 PM (view original):

Well that's a ridiculous example because no one is a "stud" capable of propelling a team to a WS win and then "useless" the next year.

Yes, I understand the point about people leaving, but that's the only reason to be hesitant to allow it.  The fact that the trade propels one team to win the WS at the expense of future seasons isn't a reason to veto a trade.  Teams do that all the time.  Alright, what if the person seeking the trade had already re-upped for next year; does that change you opinion?

No, because one can cancel their reservation at any time before rollover.. 
10/24/2010 9:12 AM
shobob
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I would have vetoed that deal.  There's no way escaping one more season at 5.4 mil is worth giving up 2 BL quality players for one AAAA player.  I'd veto it because I'm trying to run your team for you, since you don't seem to know how to.
10/24/2010 11:32 AM
strikeout26
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Posted by philogenemay on 10/23/2010 1:46:00 PM (view original):
So then, rather than using a veto to protect newbs or to help avoid imbalances, we just use it to disapprove of a trade we wouldn't make.

That seems an awful lot like trying to run another owner's team to me...
Also, I am sure that alot of vetoes on this trade were to protect a newb. In my opinion, 2 seasons of experience still constitutes a newb. This trade would also create an imbalance in the world 1 AAAA player and 2 legit prospects for 1 AAAA player. How would that not create an imbalance?
10/24/2010 11:58 AM
MikeT23
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I can't help but see the funny in that I'd approve it, the guy who "wants to run eveyone's team", while almost everyone else would veto.    There's a winner and loser in almost every trade.   If phil thinks that 5m in cap space and "marginal" BL player is worth the defensive LF(Phillips) and the respectable long reliever(Flores), more power to him.   I think it's Corky-like but to each his own. 

10/24/2010 12:00 PM
MikeT23
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What happens in a deal like this is that the owner in question(philo) gets it in his head that he has to rid himself of a contract.   The deals gets progressively worse as he begins to think "I've got to do this.  I've got to do this now!!!"   A more experienced owner would figure out a better way.
10/24/2010 12:05 PM
strikeout26
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Posted by lesliechow on 10/24/2010 5:49:00 PM (view original):

Though people strive for your perfection, Mike, not all of us can be such masterful scholars of HBD.  Now post another pointless "opinion", windbag.

By the way philo, feel free to redline off topic posts such as this one in threads that you start. Topics can go haywire if you let them.
10/24/2010 7:51 PM
greeny9
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I think vetoing is a perfectly acceptable protection for newbs.  And yes people that have 2 seasons of experience are definately still newbs.  Unless ofcourse you are an insanely avid reader of the forums.  This trade should have been vetoed absolutely.  I dont say this with the intent of being an A-Hole, rather an owner that wants to help a newb not make a mistake.
10/24/2010 8:56 PM
tmfran
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Why not designate him for assignment with waivers. That way if noone picks him up he's off you 40 man and you can let him sit in AAA for the last year of the contract. That way you dont give up any other prospects.

10/24/2010 11:01 PM
shobob
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Too smart
10/24/2010 11:01 PM
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