Ethan, I'm not saying to ignore LP/PE entirely (although I don't pay a ton of attention to LP myself).  I'm just saying that if I look at a guard, I'll take 80 SPD/20 PE over 50 SPD/50 PE all day long.  Similarly with big men, 80 ATH/40 LP trumps 40 ATH/80 LP, as far as I'm concerned.

Running man-to-man defense (looks like that's what you're doing based on your player IQ's), if you get players who are superior in ATH/SPD/DEF, then you'll always be pretty good (winning ugly is still winning!).  And if you can find just a couple of players with good offensive skills to augment them, that's when you'll get dangerous.

Looking back I'm not sure how I've gotten to the point I have.  My first years were a bit of a struggle, I recruited based soley on overall back then.  I did a bit of cherrypicking to get to Assumption, but was able to learn more with that higher prestige.  I would say it took me 6-7 season before I was good.  I think a key is to find a good conference.  Its too difficult to do in a place that only gets 1 team in the NT and you have to be a great scheduler to get a decent RPI.

In all seriousness, there just to be a thread in Tark forum written by OR, it had some great information, but I'm not sure a lot of it is there anymore.  I don't think the answer is to totally ignore core ratings (PER, LP, etc) in favor of ATH/SP.  If anything, it might be the opposite, but even then you want to have some numbers that you are very resistant going below.  That's the way I always looked at it.

Posted by hitman1979 on 1/30/2011 11:49:00 AM (view original):
In all seriousness, there just to be a thread in Tark forum written by OR, it had some great information, but I'm not sure a lot of it is there anymore.  I don't think the answer is to totally ignore core ratings (PER, LP, etc) in favor of ATH/SP.  If anything, it might be the opposite, but even then you want to have some numbers that you are very resistant going below.  That's the way I always looked at it.

@Davis: I get what you and hitman saying.

I came into ACU with only 5 scholarship players on board.  I shotgun-recruited and signed 6 freshmen and a JUCO that first season, and only by the middle of my 2nd season did I realize that I had forsaken ATH/SPD almost completely for LP/Per.  So I'm trying to rectify that from this season forward - the problem being that players with high ratings in both are probably going to be pull downs, and that's the crux of the whole problem in western Texas with a D+ prestige.  Pull downs are do-able (I'm doing it as we speak) but it's NOT easy or cheap.

I hope at some point to be in a position where I can recruit better players with both ATH/SPD *and* LP/PER - another of the dilemmas, since you can't recruit higher players without good prestige and you can't improve your prestige without better players.  That makes it a baby-step equation and I'm only starting on my first baby steps in season 3.

Last year, my team was outshot from the field, (generally) outrebounded and turned it over too much.  I have a couple of guys who can score, but wouldn't know defense if it slapped them in the nose. (Prime Example: Christopher Harris)  So naturally my priorities this season are to address those areas - hopefully all of them, but one at a time if necessary.  I have to develop another 4-year strategy before I think I can even begin to feel I'm competitive.

PS - Side note, isn't it funny when you're D+ and you've been losing a lot of games, the schedule challenges just flood in? :)  Baby steps!  I'll worry about RPI later.  Right now I just want some W's.

ethan, for what its worth, people don't want to play you if they think you're going to lose a ton of games... they think they can beat you, but you'll have a respectable overall record (or conference record). my advice-- take a few of the challenges even if you're going to lose them, just so people will continue to play you when you've gotten a little better.

but don't accept them all, or you'll not win enough games. Play teams you can beat, on the road, for the rest of your non-conference slate.

also, something i'd recommend is looking at your team with a 4-year plan-- who do you need to be competitive in years 3 & 4, and still have a sustainable chance to win thereafter. good luck.

Posted by wronoj on 1/30/2011 1:01:00 PM (view original):
ethan, for what its worth, people don't want to play you if they think you're going to lose a ton of games... they think they can beat you, but you'll have a respectable overall record (or conference record). my advice-- take a few of the challenges even if you're going to lose them, just so people will continue to play you when you've gotten a little better.

but don't accept them all, or you'll not win enough games. Play teams you can beat, on the road, for the rest of your non-conference slate.

also, something i'd recommend is looking at your team with a 4-year plan-- who do you need to be competitive in years 3 & 4, and still have a sustainable chance to win thereafter. good luck.

Thanks wronoj, that's good advice.  I expect that, once I have a team that can actually play a little defense I'll be more open to challenges.  It's not that I'm afraid to play anybody - mostly it's just my own total lack of confidence in my current roster.  Maybe next season I'll start to spread my wings a little more if I can land better players.

Question: Prestige is based partly on post-season results, I know.  What else?  Does total W/L count at all, or can you win most of your non-con games against cupcake SIM teams and not gain a dot of prestige?  (I'm asking because so far I haven't even been able to beat those cupcake SIM teams regularly).

I write up a 4-year plan before every season.  It's funny to go back and read my first one - I was so clueless it's embarrassing.  My current one projects number of scholarships available in each future year, expected average player improvement and lists the strengths and weaknesses in my team, overall (which is how I determined FG%-Allowed and turnovers as my most glaring weak spots currently)  I intend to recruit to fill those weaknesses and bolster the strengths.  This is what led me to cut 2 players from my team this year, anticipating my roster needs next season and the one after that.

i just made my first NT.. i sort of dumb lucked into my best player... i still don't really know how to schedule, recruiting is hit and miss, and gameplanning is dumb luck ( i mess with distro some depending on the other team and go from -4 all the way to +4 depending on the other team's history...

when i become respectable i'll let you know. maybe it will be this season...

Wins against anyone will help your prestige and homecourt advantage, in particular if you can get to a winning record for a season. Not as much as making the postseason, but i'd guess 20 wins and no postseason would be better than 12 and losing in the first round of the PIT. By all means schedule as easy as possible if you think your team has no chance to make the postseason. Win win win.

Another question:  How many of you coach different teams in different realms?  Is it worth it?  Does it increase your speed of learning?  Or does it get confusing?

everyone has their own level of comfort with how many teams they can manage... Mine is 2-4, depending on work/life constraints. I have a longtime d1 team and 2 d3 teams i've been at for a long while. I'd like to add a d2 team just to be in all 3 divisions, but don't really want a 4th team, and cannot bring myself to drop any of my others right now.

Part of the attachment is your conference-- more active, fuller conferences tend to be more fun, and you'll often find veteran coaches there who will happily help you.

There are lots of guys with 2 or 3, and then there is a healthy contingent of guys with 8-10 or more. There are also plenty of 1-team guys. Whatever works for you.

I've had 2 teams in D2 for a long time.  Recently took on a 3rd in D3.  That's plenty for me. 

It probably took 3 or 4 seasons before I stopped feeling clueless.  It wasn't until I went to D2 that I started winning consistently though.  The comment on recruiting is accurate.  Much easier to recruit in D2 with the additional cash.

Posted by ethan66 on 1/30/2011 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Another question:  How many of you coach different teams in different realms?  Is it worth it?  Does it increase your speed of learning?  Or does it get confusing?

I think it speeds up your learning but don't add more than one new team at a time. Play a complete season with a new team before adding another one