Ethics question Topic

cburton23
Posts: 496 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 289 3
Prospect
Not true at all. Once the player is on your roster you know his potentials even if you never used FSS or scouting trips
12/28/2011 10:36 PM
tianyi7886
Posts: 4243 (0)
Hall of Famer
51 33 282 40
Prospect
Posted by cburton23 on 12/28/2011 10:36:00 PM (view original):
Not true at all. Once the player is on your roster you know his potentials even if you never used FSS or scouting trips
Sure, but the coach spent money to sign him, whether it is scouting trips, hv, or cv. He gains the information on potential by spending money signing him.

The poster here wants to gain information on potential w/o spending any recruiting cash. That's cheating. 
12/28/2011 10:39 PM
cburton23
Posts: 496 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 289 3
Prospect
I don't think it's a big deal. A much smaller deal than multiple IDs and some of the other stuff that goes on unchecked.
12/28/2011 10:43 PM
tianyi7886
Posts: 4243 (0)
Hall of Famer
51 33 282 40
Prospect
It's not as big of a deal as FSS sharing, multiple teams in the same world, etc. but that wasn't the question of the poster. His question was is it ethical to ask for potential. My position, along with numerous other coaches, is that when there are in game tools (scouting visits) to get a transfers potential, then it's unethical for you to ask for a players potential. You are trying to save recruiting dollars by getting free information. That's unethical. 
12/28/2011 10:55 PM
metsmax
Posts: 1598 (0)
Hall of Famer
5 2 836 2
Pro
one way to consider this would be to ask whether two coaches who had guys transfer could agree to share potential info about the guys who transferred?

or, ask the same about two coaches who had nonqualifiers decide not to enroll?

would it be a problem if they agreed to swap info?  what if they agreed to swap info ONLY with each other and not provide it to others?  does the exchange of information make it different from one way provision of information?  if it is one way, do we think there will be an expectation that the other guy will repay the info in the future?  

does an understanding not to share with others make a difference?
12/28/2011 11:07 PM
cburton23
Posts: 496 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 289 3
Prospect
I wouldn't call it unethical, but that has more to do with that this doesn't rise to the level of ethics, but that's just semantics. I don't have a problem with It, but I really don't have much of a problem with sharing information in regards to potential but that's just me
12/28/2011 11:07 PM
ekswimmer
Posts: 58 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 1
Prospect
Think about it in terms of real life. Some coaches are very good friends with others and talk fairly often. Info is exchanged in some of the conversations. This info is not exchanged with all 300+ coaches in DI. If Rick Pitino calls Jim Boeheim (who he used to coach with) and discusses his golf game, is it cheating to mention some kid he heard about while on the recruiting trail? If it is, then good luck finding a clean program.

In a perfect world, it's all well and good to say, every person should have to win on his own credentials, but as the saying goes, 'its now what you know, its who you know.'

Besides, if the difference between knowing 1 or 2 potential categories of a player that has 2 years of eligibility is this important, you most likely are not the Jim Boeheim of WIS. There are other things to be more concerned about.


12/29/2011 12:57 AM
nachopuzzle
Posts: 1427 (0)
Hall of Famer
105 2
Prospect
Posted by dacj501 on 12/29/2011 2:08:00 AM (view original):
real world has no place in this discussion. RL recruiting has almost nothing in common with WIS recruiting.
Then we might as well be playing World of Warcraft if this is the case.
12/29/2011 4:40 AM
ekswimmer
Posts: 58 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 1
Prospect
Posted by nachopuzzle on 12/29/2011 4:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 12/29/2011 2:08:00 AM (view original):
real world has no place in this discussion. RL recruiting has almost nothing in common with WIS recruiting.
Then we might as well be playing World of Warcraft if this is the case.
You mean I can't have an assistant coach go scout a high school point guard and when I ask him what he noticed, he tells me his low post game is bad and he can't rebound?

In seriousness, I think it does. It's a question of ethics, which don't change just because it's a simulation. Just my opinion, though.
12/29/2011 9:29 AM
zags27
Posts: 462 (0)
Hall of Famer
146
Rookie
The OP ask if it's wrong to SITEMAIL another coach and ask for info on a recruit he and no-one else has.
The answer is yes. It is wrong... that's not my opinion... it's against the rules of the game.
He is looking for an advantage in recruiting by gaining this info... through SITEMAIL, not by methods put into the game to be used in recruiting.
Mully your example of apples and oranges has no bearing here.
Whether it's an apple or an orange... it's against the rules.
Is it a big deal?... I don't know nor do I care.
Does it go on...  again I don't know nor care.
You can spin this anyway you want... but Seble will tell you it's against the rules.

If go on a CC and ask a coach if he would be so kind as to post in that CC a previous players potentials, so anyone interested may know this info... that may be a different subject.... but it wasn't the OP's question.

and whether he's a D3 bum I cut because he was signed by the sim 2 seasons ago... or whether I couldn't keep my promises to him with my 875 rated D1 roster, and this sophmore stud want's go go play someplace he will see the floor.  It doesn't change right and wrong.
12/29/2011 10:06 AM (edited)
jtt8355
Posts: 593 (0)
Hall of Famer
201
Prospect
i like the intl recruit example but it doesn't change my opinion: there's nothing wrong with a coach sharing information on a transfer player. the simple reason is this: during a season, we would all agree (i hope!) that a coach can share the potential of his players. if we have a rule making that information 'unshareable' post transfer, (1) it gives anyone that got that information legitimately pre-transfer at an unfair advantage; (2) it perhaps makes any shared info retroactively unethical, which would be ridiculous to police; and (3) if either (1) or (2) becomes a problem, it would create less sharing amongst coaches, which would be severely detrimental to the game. all of that being said, it creates an apples to oranges (thank mully) comparison of the examples given. now, if someone wanted to bring up giving out info on a juco that someone scouted the prior year, that might be a more appropriate example / challenge - i.e., if someone FSS or evals a recruit that doesn't sign and the next season, the recruit is available as a juco, can the prior year recruiter share potential on that recruit during next season's recruiting since he had that info available for a full season and could have legitimately shared that info for the entire season? I am inclined to say no, but it does create a quandry about my answer on the transfer issue...
12/29/2011 10:34 AM (edited)
nachopuzzle
Posts: 1427 (0)
Hall of Famer
105 2
Prospect
Posted by dacj501 on 12/29/2011 6:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nachopuzzle on 12/29/2011 4:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 12/29/2011 2:08:00 AM (view original):
real world has no place in this discussion. RL recruiting has almost nothing in common with WIS recruiting.
Then we might as well be playing World of Warcraft if this is the case.
that - doesn't even make sense. But go ahead...
How can you say the real world doesn't have any place in a discussion about a simulation which is directly modeled after and inspired by events that occur in the real world???

I get that there are MANY aspects of this game that do not translate and/or mirror the event it is attempting to simulate. However, the only area that can most accurately resemble (or even come close to) the behaviors of the real life events and/or institutions is the manner in which coaches distribute information amongst themselves for their own mutual benefit. I completely understand why there are rules about sharing information concerning recruits and juco player for this simulation, but once a player is signed by a program he ceases to merely be vague potentialities shrouded by the recruiting database. It's a cat that cannot be put back in the bag, nor should it be. Why wouldn't information that is fairly obtained be at the discretion of the individual who went through the trouble and risk of acquiring it?

I think the lack of FSS info on transfers is a witty method of expressing and recreating the inherent risk associated with recruiting such an individual. The reason that coaches share information about transfers is to make sure they understand the reasons for why a player was either dismissed or quit the program, so they can avoid the same scenario. This situation happens all the time at various levels of athletics and isn't a violation of collegiate policies in any form. Not to mention the WIS recruiting format has an option whereby you can contact the player's coach (albeit fictional) to obtain information for a small fee, so why does this become unethical simply because the previous coach is now a user? 

Sharing appropriate information may be the most realistic aspect of this whole game precisely because it bypasses the format altogether, thus allowing coaches to behave in the same way and for the same reasons as coaches in real life. If a coach doesn't take advantage of this feature then they are only hurting themselves, and if the previous coach decides to distribute the info only specific coaches then so what - He paid the price for it and can do with it as he wills.

If I wanted to play a game whereby the experiences of real life are precluded simply because they are real then I would play World of Warcraft.             
12/29/2011 10:15 AM
blackdog3377
Posts: 1691 (0)
Hall of Famer
190 2 1
Prospect
Posted by zags27 on 12/29/2011 10:06:00 AM (view original):
The OP ask if it's wrong to SITEMAIL another coach and ask for info on a recruit he and no-one else has.
The answer is yes. It is wrong... that's not my opinion... it's against the rules of the game.
He is looking for an advantage in recruiting by gaining this info... through SITEMAIL, not by methods put into the game to be used in recruiting.
Mully your example of apples and oranges has no bearing here.
Whether it's an apple or an orange... it's against the rules.
Is it a big deal?... I don't know nor do I care.
Does it go on...  again I don't know nor care.
You can spin this anyway you want... but Seble will tell you it's against the rules.

If go on a CC and ask a coach if he would be so kind as to post in that CC a previous players potentials, so anyone interested may know this info... that may be a different subject.... but it wasn't the OP's question.

and whether he's a D3 bum I cut because he was signed by the sim 2 seasons ago... or whether I couldn't keep my promises to him with my 875 rated D1 roster, and this sophmore stud want's go go play someplace he will see the floor.  It doesn't change right and wrong.
Except its not against the rules of the game as mully pointed out. Seble himself said in a dev chat that you could sitemail a coach about a transfer.
12/29/2011 10:17 AM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Show
mullycj
Posts: 2737 (0)
Hall of Famer
214 1
Prospect

Because most people don't even bother to read entire threads before they post.

12/29/2011 11:27 AM
◂ Prev 12345 Next ▸
Ethics question Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.