Posted by dahsdebater on 6/8/2012 6:29:00 PM (view original):
1. Honus
2. Hughie Jennings
3. Appling
4. Ripken
5. Jeter

If he could field he would beat Ripken and maybe even Appling...

Cool. Using the standards I had for first base, and disqualifying Alex Rodriguez due to all the complaints that might occur, thanks to his 'roiding, here's how i see it.

1. Wagner
2. Ripken
3. Yount
4. Vaughan
5. Appling

In the running: Jeter and Larkin.

Ranking shortstops*?

Wagner
Ripken
Jeter
Trammell
Vaughan
Appling
Ozzie Smith

*not counting Yount as a SS

Posted by jrd_x on 6/8/2012 7:11:00 PM (view original):
Ranking shortstops*?

Wagner
Ripken
Jeter
Trammell
Vaughan
Appling
Ozzie Smith

*not counting Yount as a SS

Why not Yount? He played most of his games at short. Or is this a vast majority case, and Yount can't make a list no matter what?

I think Yount only played about half his games at short.

Among games played in the field, he played about 54.6% at shortstop. So he played most of his games there.

I don't think 50% is the threshold. I think it's probably around 75%.

1...Wagner, and it's not even close
2...everyone else

Posted by jrd_x on 6/8/2012 8:49:00 PM (view original):
I don't think 50% is the threshold. I think it's probably around 75%.

Well, that eliminates Yount. Sticking to shortstops, Wagner's out of the running too, since he's at about 68%. Here's what I have with the 75% threshold.

1. Ripken
2. Vaughan
3. Appling
4. Jeter
5. Larkin

It seems to me that any standard that precludes one from considering Honus Wagner as a shortstop is flawed.

I agree. But there has to be some sort of standard. It's really not accurate to compare guys with the ability to stick at SS to guys who had to move off short relatively early in their careers.

I know less than you guys, but I think instead of a percentage threshold, you sould set a min # of GP at the position.  To me, I f a dude played 10 years at a posiiton, that is enough to get a decisive view as to where he belongs in the all-time best list for that position.

To take that 10-year guy, and dismiss him as a mere "fifty-percenter" because he then went and played additional 10 years at OF/DH, seems counter-intuitive to me.

Ranking players by position is very popular. There are examples all over the internet. And Ernie Banks is ranked as a shortstop on all I have seen. He played enough games at short to make ranking him there reasonable, and his performance at that position is what made him memorable. People think of Banks as a shortstop, not a first baseman. I agree with the_jsa that there needs to be a minimum number of games to keep things from getting out of hand, but once I get past that point, I'm going with my gut. It's similar to deciding which team to associate a player with. Eddie Collins played more games with the White Sox, but he was at his best with the Athletics. So I connect him with the Athletics.

How about a standard of 'if you had to choose a shortstop to play one game for all the marbles, who would it be?"  How important is longevity to the question - is someone with 3-4 off-the-charts spectacular seasons at shortstop a less legitimate selection as 'best' than someone with more but less spectacular seasons?

Trying to figure out an ideal system for how to place players is a waste of time. Each person should go with what is reasonable, and what feels right. If a person is most comfortable ranking players by where they played the most games, then that's where their gut took them. But if I were to ask people to rank shortstops in order to develop a consensus, I would ask them to consider Banks a shortstop for that project, in order to have a consistent approach. A different person might ask for something else.

But when it comes to discussing players good enough to be ranked high at a position, one should never eliminate some from consideration. Choose where you want to rank the player, then consider that player's entire career when ranking him. Doing otherwise is unfair.

Posted by mudbone1969 on 6/8/2012 8:59:00 PM (view original):
1...Wagner, and it's not even close
2...everyone else

this