Posted by dacj501 on 6/19/2012 2:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/19/2012 2:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 6/19/2012 2:30:00 PM (view original):
seble, regarding redshirts: Are you using OVR to determine the talent ratings which the player will use to factor into his decision? If so, would a modified value of say OVR - DUR - WE or some such be a better indicator of actual value?

I'm using a new formula that weights each rating based on position.  There is no weight on durability and only small weight on work ethic and stamina.

I appreciate that you've considered this and are using something besides OVR, but if it goes by position, and you previously stated how listed position is not always accurate, won't that be an issue?

Yes and no.  I don't want to try to project where a player would fit in a team's depth chart as part of the decision because a coach could easily manipulate the depth chart (e.g. loading up the SF depth so that a FR SF accepts the RS).  It could also be problematic to only look at the number of players at the same listed position because a coach may intend to play guys out of position.

As for evaluating player quality, even if the listed position isn't quite perfect based on the player's skills, the formula should still be ok.  For example the difference in weighting on ratings between PG and SG isn't that much.

I like the changes; especially intrigued to try the custom search in recruiting.

Regarding the red shirt changes, I understand that if you RS a kid and he doesn't like it, that's not going to change.  But if his WE drops 15 (or whatever) and you decide that's too high a price, will you still get that WE back if you remove the red shirt?

Posted by teamrc on 6/19/2012 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 6/19/2012 2:28:00 PM (view original):
good changes overall - thanks!!

agreed, nice changes indeed.

1 question. Will #3 and #5 also lessen the importance of just overall win totals?
Being the coach of Zaga and losing like 7 EE's in the last 6 seasons, while averaging 25+ wins/season... but getting rolled in the NT by better teams. The overall wins formula seems to be one of the biggest flaws of that code to a mid-major.

Yes, it will now look at the same success formula that we use in other areas, which takes much more into account, such as rank, rpi, and postseason results.

Will booster gifts ever be re-implemented after fixing them, or are they gone for good?

Seble, thanks for the update, and thanks alot for hanging around this thread to answer some questions.
Big help

Posted by thescamdog on 6/19/2012 2:42:00 PM (view original):
I'm surprised by the removal of booster gifts. I never used them, but I always kind of thought I would one day. I'd love to see stats on the following:

• How often were they used?
• How often did they help?
• How often did the user get away with it?

I don't have exact numbers, but they were not used very often, only about half the time were they a benefit during recruiting, and the percentage of being caught was pretty high.

The decision was made because it really didn't benefit the game at all.  Either the team using the gifts ended up getting busted, which ruins that school and coach for quite a while, or another team lost out on a recruit because of "cheating".  So either way someone was going to get shafted in the deal.  It's just one of those things that doesn't really translate from real life to the game.

Posted by point_piper on 6/19/2012 2:49:00 PM (view original):
I like the changes; especially intrigued to try the custom search in recruiting.

Regarding the red shirt changes, I understand that if you RS a kid and he doesn't like it, that's not going to change.  But if his WE drops 15 (or whatever) and you decide that's too high a price, will you still get that WE back if you remove the red shirt?

Yes.

Posted by caesari on 6/19/2012 2:54:00 PM (view original):
Will booster gifts ever be re-implemented after fixing them, or are they gone for good?

Not likely to ever come back.

I second aejones comment, booster gifts should be fixed rather than entirely removed.  I am willing, however, to give a pass on change #8 as an interim fix for functions that would be tricky to adjust on the fly.   My sincere hope is that some level of personality complication (booster gifts, greed rating, discipline or the like) can be added back into the D1 level at a later date.  I certainly agree that those functions removed have no place at the D2 or D3 level of this game.

sounds good.

now that the 5 man rule is finally gone, i have to ask, any A prestige d1 coach out there running off the formula - recruit 2 sr transfers, 1 juco 2, and 2 exceptional freshman EVERY season on a 5 man budget? how did that treat you? because i simply cannot see how that would not result in total domination. 2 freshman on a 5 man budget every year... nobody would even try to stop you. if only i had never dropped my d1 teams... sigh.

in case anyone is not following, the above would guarantee NO early entries ever (in the old system). that pretty much means after 4 seasons of use, you have 2 seniors who were 2 of the best freshman in the game, 2 juniors who you can say the same about, 2 sophs, as well as a top juco2 who is now a senior, and a top juco2 who is now a junior. poor coach has 2 freshman who make up their 9th and 10th spots but again, as some of the best in the country, that is a good thing (especially come tourney time, sophs should be like b+/a- and fr b-/b). plus you have those 2 senior transfers, which i pretty much assume are useless, but hey, they probably beat walkons.

of course, you can ask if 2 transfers are always available, and a good juco, but when you are in a good conference and have a cool 100k every season, and maybe drop 40k max locking up 2 freshman, i would say, yes. and one season missed could be patched up without major damage.

But booster gifts weren't cheating, as they were a part of the game. Everyone had the opportunity to use them, most just elected not to.

red shirt transition - so what happens if I give a red shirt to a guy today - under the old rules - can I try again on the 26th under the new rules - once?

it is an interesting tactical question especially if you have a guy who you think might do better under the new rules......or what if you think he wont.....??

Posted by seble on 6/19/2012 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 6/19/2012 1:56:00 PM (view original):
seble, does #4 take potential into account, otherwise I don't see how it is valuable for recruiting...

No, it does not.  There's really no way to do that I can think of.

You can't add 'potential' into the mix with a formula, if you did that it would make recruiting too easy. If all you have to do is look at a column that is sorted for 'number of high potentials', etc. you have basically taken recruiting and instead of actually having to find good players made it a robotic function. I'd hate to see recruiting become more of this than it already is with potentials being on the ratings view during searches.

Posted by zhawks on 6/19/2012 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/19/2012 2:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 6/19/2012 1:56:00 PM (view original):
seble, does #4 take potential into account, otherwise I don't see how it is valuable for recruiting...

No, it does not.  There's really no way to do that I can think of.

You can't add 'potential' into the mix with a formula, if you did that it would make recruiting too easy. If all you have to do is look at a column that is sorted for 'number of high potentials', etc. you have basically taken recruiting and instead of actually having to find good players made it a robotic function. I'd hate to see recruiting become more of this than it already is with potentials being on the ratings view during searches.

you could do it - but it would be awful - you could rank the players based on their current points PLUS their potential

i'd prefer MORE uncertainty rather than less, more fuzzy knowledge,.,....but I digress

Posted by metsmax on 6/19/2012 3:04:00 PM (view original):
red shirt transition - so what happens if I give a red shirt to a guy today - under the old rules - can I try again on the 26th under the new rules - once?

it is an interesting tactical question especially if you have a guy who you think might do better under the new rules......or what if you think he wont.....??

In that case, the attempt after the release (if it's the second attempt of that season) would result in the same response as the previous attempt.