Tanking in Progressives Topic

italyprof
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When I was a kid I was an Oakland Raiders fan (yes, in New Jersey), and they were really the only football team I could root for in the 1960s and 70s. If you watch the last few minutes of this video about their 1976 season and especially the game they played week 13 against the Cincinnati Bengals, a game they COULD have thrown so they could avoid playing the powerful Pittsburgh Steelers in the playoffs - and listen to what they themselves years later say about that game, you will hear one of the most eloquent arguments against tanking. 

The Raiders played dirty, they were no saints (New Orleans or otherwise !). "They cheated opponents. They NEVER cheated the game."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGqwpqoE7jg&playnext=1&list=PL0CAF683C1AFC7BA3&feature=results_video
8/7/2012 10:13 AM
cardinaldave
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B - Really depends on the level of fatigue issues, but resting all fatigued players at once can be avoided by doing it one at a time or piecemeal, decreasing the odds of losses. But, again, not big enough a deal for sanctions.

A - This is actually a no brainer. We play to get our teams into the postseason, so it is only reasonable to make sure they have enough juice left to do well once there.

C - This is pretty much the poster scenario for tanking and is precisely why we implemented just4me's formula in the Centenary League.

C - A close 2nd to Scenario 3. Draft formulas or IP/PA minimums can deter this practice. It is crap. One league I am in has a team w/ about 900 IP and is routinely beaten by 20-30 runs, skewing individual stats and other teams' winning pcts.

8/12/2012 9:42 PM
seamar_116
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gonoles formula leagues ( a mix of current salary + keeper salary - wins, and there are two variations of this formula that I am in and both work fine)  are the most fun for me. Winning is rewarded. There is absolutely no advantage gained by losing a game. Problem solved.
8/14/2012 7:12 PM
cpdpoet
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Honest post:

1. A-but have never done it w/ a full lineup? 2-3 starters yes. Switched out sp's too; yes. If my team is playing the other league's .750+% win team and my squad is iffy on pa/ip, I have to max out my team's opportunities.
2. A- Rarely have I had the opportunity to do this, but have done it. BUT only when IP/PA concerns are apparent. The issue occurrs when the resting helps/hurts "intentionally" the other team in your division. Have seen many accused of this. If my players are at 98% or above don't bother resting at all. (after all I have to pipedream my team will have a chance to get to the TOC) REMEMBER, this can also occur during the series(s) before the final @division last 12 games....
3. B- Through early and mid-season deals dumping players, I have been accused of this on 2 occasions. My replies have been detailed through forum and sitemail posts explaining my reasoning. IOW blow me..... Mainly because, when MY team needs help, I scout every team often enough to know "maybe" when owners are ready to move on to the next season. Most of you who know me, are familiar w/ my "just fishing here" - "just kicking the tires" sitemails. I try not to be pushy, but give it 2 sitemails to see if the owner is open to a deal....If not meh, it's ok.
CONVERSELY, I make the post in the league forum that I am looking to deal for the future, every offer will get a reply...Hint: Firesale.. But if that post is near a "win milestone" etc, so be it. Again IMO.
4. C- Never done it in years on WIS. Always through trades/drafting acquired "enough" ip/pa so you don't play players below 80% (my own personal threshold).
BUT have on a few occasions fielded a TON of AAA pitching through in season trades (for future players/picks) or had to draft the "Randy Jones's IP's) to make sure I could toss a WIS player out there instead of aaa.

Again, my 2 cents...

Also, have been "seriously accused of tanking" in a dual season progressive because I played an OF at 2b for the season.
Could I have drafted a crappy no 2bman.....sure. Instead I chose "another" OF who had verygood longterm hitting stats that translated into 1b time too.
None of my OF's were D/D players, I forget exactly.... But if I recall I played the C/C OF at 2b.

When I exchanged multiple sitemails w/ the commish and detailed my future plan he was MORE THAN accepting w/ my explanation, but the 2 owners who felt I was tanking did not accept (their opinion, that's cool) my explanation. I dropped the following season, after finishing the year and the next..

8/15/2012 1:20 AM
mattedesa
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The more I think about this whole issue - and I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as it may seem by this post - the more I think that a wins floor is a poor way to deter tanking. It only makes people find a different and harder to detect way of tanking. Can you really blame someone for pushing the boundaries of the rules, trying to find an advantage for their team?

In MLB, anti-tanking is built-in by the fan base. If you aren't trying to win, or at least build and play a strong team, your fan base and therefore your revenue will shrink. I've seen advertisements for a couple of leagues that changed teams' salary caps each season depending on how many wins they got. Has anyone played one of those leagues? How did that work?

I'm becoming more of a fan of the lottery idea. It adds a little bit more chance to the predictable nature of progressives. I say they are predictable, because you can usually predict about what slot in which your team will draft, and you already know what players are going to be available and what kind of careers they will have. A lottery makes it a little less sure that you will get a top level pick and a sure-fire top-notch player just because you had a terrible season -be it intentional or not.
8/15/2012 11:40 AM
biglenr
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I've never had time to run a progressive, but I always thought that the fairest way was a lottery of all owners.

If you finished in the playoffs, you got 1 lottery chance (8 teams, 8 chances)
If you finished in the next 8 teams, you got 2 chances (8 teams, 16 chances, total 16 teams, 24 chances)
If you finished in the bottom 8 teams, you got 3 chances (8 teams, 24 chances, total 24 teams, 48 chances).

Then you determined the draft order for the by random numbers, going from the first pick to the 24th.  Once one of your numbers is drawn, your other numbers are invalid, of course.

Each team would have a shot at the top pick, but the teams that need it most have a higher chance of it.  

Luck would play a factor, but there would be little reason to throw games, as the most they would do is increase your chance at a lottery pick by 2.1%.  Not worth it for most of us.  

 
8/15/2012 12:10 PM
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