Interesting stats --- Topic

I mentionnd him earlier, and nobody has chimed in either way - Whitey Ford.  I'm not talking Sim, I'm talking RL.  Yankees managers (Houk, Stengel) used him that way: if you need a win, start Whitey - 2 games rest, four games, didn't matter.  I'd still take Gibson in a 1-game-to-win-it-all, but Whitey may be my #2.
8/9/2012 1:32 AM
Maddux, it depends on the umpire. If he's giving Maddux the corners, I'll take him over anyone. If he's getting squeezed, he's just an ordinary pitcher. Gibson, Koufax, Dave Stewart, but year in and year out, in the situation cr describes, who can possibly be better than Mariano? He's thrown that last pitch too many times to be questioned. Ford was smart. crafty, and he knew how to cheat.
   Stuff pitchers, like Roy Halliday or Maddux, are dependent on the umpire calling a proper strike zone. Pitchers like Tim Lincecum never throw a strike, his ball breaks so sharply bad pitches get swung at and missed. Gibson and Koufax could win with any ump, because they could nibble or challenge, and win either way. Schilling and Johnson, too.
  A single batter you have to get out? Even though he has failed a few times, I'd take my chances with Mariano. In the SIM, I think I'd go with '88 Elton Chamberlain.
  Another factor that gets discounted in these discussions with the old timers is the doctored ball. Balls weren't immediately thrown out of play, and some pitchers could do amazing things with a doctored ball. Whether the ball's surface was accidentally or intentionally damaged, it was their team mates job to try and keep such a ball in play.
8/9/2012 7:42 AM
pfattkatt, I can't remember that trivia question: who are the only 5 pitchers to throw the last out in two different World Series ? 

Also, if we are talking that last pitch - Mariano far and away of course - honorable mention to Trevor Hoffman. Anyone not named Scott Brosius gets fooled by that great change up for strike three. 
8/9/2012 8:09 AM
Wayne McEnerny was the one we couldn't get...Gibson, Koufax, Mariano, now I forget that other one!
8/9/2012 10:48 AM
Limiting myself to pitchers I saw play, If I need to win one game (IRL), I want a fired-up Randy Johnson starting.  He just scared hitters into missing.  In the sim, I would start Pedro over just about anyone.  If it's a single out I need, RL or sim, Mariano.  '08 Mariano has been the single most consistent pitcher for me at any cap.
8/9/2012 3:20 PM
I've been thinking a bit on that "last pitch" question...Bruce Sutter is kind of forgotten, but he was tough, and Hoyt Wilhelm was a very tough reliever. Lindy McDaniel had some great years as a reliever. He pitched 3/4 as a starter, completely overhand as a reliever, his stuff when he threw over the top practically exploded. In the old days they often went several innings, which makes direct comparisons difficult, maybe even a little unfair.
8/10/2012 7:22 PM
no one's mentioned Nolan Ryan either - i don't know how much postseason success he had - but he was pretty good at getting that "last pitch"  - though he was also pretty good at walking that guy as well. 
8/10/2012 7:35 PM
I remember Ryan being a much better 1st half of the season pitcher. Other than the Ks, he's nothing special. He was always there, and he did kick Robin's a**, but je isn't in the same class as the other guys mentioned here.
8/10/2012 9:43 PM
How did he do those complete game 177 pitch games every 4 days is what i am amazed at.
8/10/2012 9:57 PM
When he was over 40.
8/11/2012 2:22 PM
He was durable...and I hate that the Mets traded him (and 3 other players) for a 40 year old SS...BR ranks him between Feller and Perry, and that's about right, I guess.
8/11/2012 5:01 PM
I think Nolan Ryan gets a bad rap.   I really only remember the 2nd half of his career (1986 on) but he was pretty friggin good.   I don't think he is a top 10 pitcher all time but I think he is in the top 20.  He is certainly  one of the top 7 or so pitchers after the DH was introduced.
8/11/2012 6:31 PM
We tend to think of the "old timers" as all having rubber arms, and certainly there are many who did. There are plenty of them, however, who had a big inning season or two, and then were done. Ryan's durability is as unquestioned as is his ability to defend himself from Robin Ventura. He was a positive factor on every team he was on, but he really was never a truly dominant pitcher. He never had a season that compares with the best of Maddux, or Martinez, but he could go out there every 4th day for a long, long time.
8/12/2012 12:08 PM
maybe its because i was born in 1985, and didnt really see him pitch, but his stats show he had some pretty dominate seasons.  He always had a weakness, walks, but he was pretty unhitable from the looks of it  
8/12/2012 12:40 PM
I think you are underselling him pfatkatt...I think he was truly dominant a number of seasons.   From 72-74 he was pretty friggin good; 87 and 90 were awesome as well.

He might not have been as good as Maddux in 1994 or Pedro in 2001 but those were like the two of the five best season a pitcher has had in the last 100 years.
8/12/2012 6:20 PM
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Interesting stats --- Topic

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