Atta boy, Mark Topic

AlCheez
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Posted by Jtpsops on 8/19/2012 5:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 8/19/2012 5:40:00 PM (view original):
You didn't post any of the posts from the same site/thread that agreed with the ejection.  Odd...
Ya, you're right...why would I take the word of an umpire/the ump's manual over a few know-it-all fans like MikeT
My point was that you cited 1 post (actually a combination of two) from a thread that most agreed with you when there were several umps in the same thread that supported the idea that the ejection was warranted.

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/43152-reversing-a-call-again/

8/19/2012 5:48 PM
Jtpsops
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I quoted the post that referenced the MLBUM. None of those who agreed with the ejection offered any kind of rule support for it.
8/19/2012 5:56 PM
AlCheez
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No you didn't - you pulled the first line of the guy that cited the MLBUM and combined it with the body of the post above it, probably because the original post went on to point out that there's no mandated progression, which doesn't exactly help your argument.
8/19/2012 5:58 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 8/19/2012 5:44:00 PM (view original):
Is this your post?

" Per the MLBUM, any player throwing equipment in protest of an umpire's call shall be fined and, if flagrant, ejected.

Throwing equipment at the professional level can be considered an equipment violation at the discretion of the umpires. They can either call it a violation (point at it and acknowledge it, write it up and MLB will assess a fine). Or they can choose to eject.

Usually if they just throw equipment in disgust it's a fine. If some verbiage is included it will result in an ejection."

I'm waiting for an answer.

The follow-up will be "Do you see the bolded words?"
8/19/2012 6:16 PM
AlCheez
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And don't get me wrong, I'd never dispute the notion that umps have become overly sensitive these days - but the notion, presented by Reynolds and the O's announcers and parroted here by JT and dahasdebater that this particular umpire did something that was completely out of the realm of his authority, to the point of even being protest worthy, by tossing Reynolds is just false.  The umpire clearly has discretion to toss him over something like that - we can argue whether he should have or not, but he was well within his authority to do so.

If Reynolds doesn't toss the glove, he stays in the game.   Once he does, it's a judgment call on the part of umpire whether to toss him or just rule it an equipment violation.  Once you bring the umpire's judgment into the equation, you risk the possibility that you won't like it.
8/19/2012 6:20 PM
MikeT23
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I imagine that anything outside the job of actually playing baseball is an ejectionable(is that a word?) offense.    As I said before, "discretion" is a word you'll see a lot wrt umpiring.
8/19/2012 6:26 PM
MikeT23
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And, for the record, I find umps that decide to be the show out of line.   No one pays to see an ump make calls.    No idea who said it but you know an ump is doing a good job if you don't notice him.
8/19/2012 6:28 PM
burnsy483
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Mike, I guess that's the original point.  There are several umps who make a point to be "the show" and/or make questionable calls or decisions with no apparent repercussions.  That's what's frustrating.
8/20/2012 10:38 AM
MikeT23
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Well, I don't believe umpires make intentional bad calls out of spite.   I also don't believe they're given carte blanche wrt to ejections, blown calls, etc, etc.   In fact, it takes about two seconds to find that MLB has taken disciplinary action against umpires.   What jtpops, and I assume you, wants is some public tongue-lashing of umpires.    First, I'm sure confidentiality of discipline is in their contract.    Second, I don't care to see Bud Selig calling out umpires publicly.  Believe it or not, like it or not, that would diminish their authority on the field.

8/20/2012 10:53 AM
MikeT23
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http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2012/05/charlie-manuel-bob-davidson-suspended/1
8/20/2012 10:55 AM
burnsy483
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I know that an ump was suspended once for an altercation with a Mets manager and player as well.  But while players and managers are constantly replaced when they don't preform, umpires essentially have a job for life. 
8/20/2012 10:59 AM
MikeT23
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So now fines and suspensions aren't enough?   They need to be fired?

3 umpire supervisors were fired in 2009.  I imagine that the contract MLB negotiated does not allow for the dismissal of umpires.  

8/20/2012 11:13 AM
burnsy483
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A player who works hard and can't cut it at the ML level is replaced.  An umpire who works hard and can't cut it at the ML level stays at the ML level for life.  I understand the frustation felt by players, especially when they feel shown up by an umpire.
8/20/2012 11:47 AM
MikeT23
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Surely you don't think players and umps are the same.
8/20/2012 12:29 PM
burnsy483
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I don't.
8/20/2012 12:35 PM
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