Posted by brianp87 on 8/22/2012 5:34:00 PM (view original):
Even in d1 I dont think its a big deal the big deal is all the extra money they get plus the opprotunity to have rollover $.  If distance is equal And $ was equal.  Id love my chances against 80% of the ppl playing.  The key to low level d1 is walkons and knowing how to spend $.  You cant let ego get in the way you have to knwo when to fold them.  Sucks they took away boosters it leveled the playing field.

low d1, thats fine. high d1 is a different story. if you have equal distance and $ and the other guy is an A to your C, you are going to need them to have massively more obligations than you on other recruits... even in my conservative model, if they spend 40 and you 80, they win.

Posted by jjwarden on 8/22/2012 5:56:00 PM (view original):
Several times in this thread some have referenced the need to spend money "correctly."  Can you elaborate and give examples of spending money "correctly" and "incorrectly".  Thanks!  I guess if I spend my money "incorrectly" then I need out with the old strategy and in with the new!  Thanks for the help.  

well, this can really refer to two things, i guess. what i am talking about is, if you know you have X dollars to spend on a recruit, how do you spend it? some people mix scouting visits, home visits, and campus visits, and that is an example of spending money incorrectly - you could get a lot more credit out of your money. its all about considering credit, not money, and different tools have different ratios of money : credit at different distances. in short, you should use predominantly home visits for a local (360 or less) recruit, and campus visits on a distant (360 or more) recruit.

edit: coach_billyg = gillispie, hope that didnt cause any confusion

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/22/2012 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jjwarden on 8/22/2012 5:56:00 PM (view original):
Several times in this thread some have referenced the need to spend money "correctly."  Can you elaborate and give examples of spending money "correctly" and "incorrectly".  Thanks!  I guess if I spend my money "incorrectly" then I need out with the old strategy and in with the new!  Thanks for the help.  

well, this can really refer to two things, i guess. what i am talking about is, if you know you have X dollars to spend on a recruit, how do you spend it? some people mix scouting visits, home visits, and campus visits, and that is an example of spending money incorrectly - you could get a lot more credit out of your money. its all about considering credit, not money, and different tools have different ratios of money : credit at different distances. in short, you should use predominantly home visits for a local (360 or less) recruit, and campus visits on a distant (360 or more) recruit.

edit: coach_billyg = gillispie, hope that didnt cause any confusion

interesting, gill -- seems you value HVs vis-a-vis CVs more highly than the conventional wisdom I've seen.  alternatively, i've been recruiting wrong all these years.

Wow, I am with johnsensing in saying that I did not realize HV have more impact than CV under 360 miles.  The next logical question I guess is:  Is there a chart somewhere that stats the values of the various recruiting options from the different mileages?  
 

i might not be right, but you are correct, i value HVs more than conventional wisdom. however, the coaches whose opinions i regard the highest, with the single exception of LM, have all agreed HV>CV at 360 or less. where the HV:CV ratio falls exactly in there varies, but that essentially places it between 1.7 (1300 vs 750) and 2.5 (1000 vs 400). i remember when i was a new coach, like 5 years ago, one of the best coaches around posted that he thought it was 1.6... although i think he later amended that... but at the time, i remember thinking really? no way, its got to be more than 2:1, more like 3:1, or else the most expensive thing wouldnt be the best value, which we are all so programmed to expect. so i always wonder, do people think its higher because thats what we are inclined to think, and only lower our estimation when we are given good evidence, which rarely happens? or did i mess something up and come up with too low a figure?

along those lines, can HV still be rejected without getting refunded? i have yet to see it, but i also dont always check that closely. i wonder when that changed, if it caused an inadvertent rebalancing of the CVs and HVs...

I have a value but wont share it on here it will give up my advantage. 

When you mention that it varies from 1.7 to 2.5.  Is that variance because no one really knows the true equation or is it because things vary depending on the distance under 360 you are?  In other words it is closer to 1.7, for example, when you are around 100 miles but closer to 2.5 for example when you are around 300 miles away. The variance is a result of the distance thus the large gap.  
    

Posted by jjwarden on 8/22/2012 6:30:00 PM (view original):
Wow, I am with johnsensing in saying that I did not realize HV have more impact than CV under 360 miles.  The next logical question I guess is:  Is there a chart somewhere that stats the values of the various recruiting options from the different mileages?  
 

A HV has the same recruiting impact whether the recruit is 10 miles or 1000 miles. The difference is whether or not the CV or HV is more cost effective.

Posted by jjwarden on 8/22/2012 7:28:00 PM (view original):
When you mention that it varies from 1.7 to 2.5.  Is that variance because no one really knows the true equation or is it because things vary depending on the distance under 360 you are?  In other words it is closer to 1.7, for example, when you are around 100 miles but closer to 2.5 for example when you are around 300 miles away. The variance is a result of the distance thus the large gap.  
    

sorry, i might have confused you. when i say people say HV > CV under 360, and CV > HV over 360 (a popular belief), you are effectively implying that HV:CV ratio is between 1.7:1 and 2.5:1, because of the costs of the tools at those distances (1000 CV vs 400 HV is the 200-360 range, roughly, and 1300 CV vs 750 HV (or maybe its 700) is the 360-1360ish range).

there is NO variance in the value of HVs or CVs, for a single school. seble has verified for me that the HV:CV ratio is the same for all divisions, and for every HV and CV (meaning no cost change over time). the simple conclusion to that statement is that you always would want to use all HV or all CV if you knew which was more effective at that distance.

Xactly you need to know which is best bang for the buck at ur distance.  Thats were ppl go wrong most of the time.  In fact I think me and jeff disagree a little on the value but not a ton if I remember correctly.

Does anyone have an opinion on the prestige gap between divisions? (i.e. Is the advantage the same between D3 A to A+ as it is between D3 A+ and a D2 D- prestige).

My personal opinion is the prestige boundaries are multiplicative based on the previous boundary value but I don't know if there is some type of offset between divisions to handle the A++++ teams in D2 and D3 (that or they have some type of cap in place).

Gotcha.  Makes sense.  So, for an example.  

Team 1 has $10,000 to spend after they offer a scholarship.  The recruit they are looking at is 200 miles away.  It is most cost effective for them to use all HV's to recruit this player.  (No CV's, phone calls etc)  This is the best bang for the buck.  

Team 2 has $10,000 to spend after they offer a scholarship.  The recruit they are looking at is 500 miles away.  It is most cost effective for them to use all CV's to recruit this player.  (No HV's, phone calls etc.)  This is the best bang for the buck.  

A Home Visit is the most effective way to recruit a player under 360 miles.  360 miles and over it is most cost effective to use Campus Visits.  Correct?  

You need to calculate what you feel a cv is equal to a hv like 1.5 to 1 then use the cost at the paticular distance to see which is a better value.  I dont think there is a presitge difference between divisions.  andI dont think there is a cap on an A+ not all A+ are equal. 

If a cv at 100 miles is 100$ and you feel there worht 1.5 times a hv and a hv is 250$ then use cv's.  as the gap gets closer $ wise you need to figure what is best.

Posted by brip87 on 8/22/2012 8:42:00 PM (view original):
You need to calculate what you feel a cv is equal to a hv like 1.5 to 1 then use the cost at the paticular distance to see which is a better value.  I dont think there is a presitge difference between divisions.  andI dont think there is a cap on an A+ not all A+ are equal. 

If you don't think there is a gap between divisions, do you think it is possible for what is considered an A+++++ D3 school to actually have a higher prestige multiplier than a D2 D- prestige school?