Reserving a Team Topic

1.  I could be wrong, but I think most new users (which is what we are talking about when we are saying we dont want to discourage anyone) join the first world that's starting after they join.  They don't look at every world for the best available school.  And if we say that everyone can just reserve a team, what's the point of even having the day and a half to sign up for new coaches before recruiting starts, after all, everyone should have already chosen the team they want.

Sure or they want to join a specific world to play with friends/co-worker/family.  The point is when they sign up they are looking for a number of days at what teams are available and then putting down there money to play.  At this point when WIS accepts payment, I would think the customer would expect to be able to see that they actually bought something (and usually if they want to replace it with something else, then you better be able to refuse it or get your money back).

Your proposal would require a new user to put down some money, then have to sit back for possible 40 days or more and then if someone else comes along that according to you is more *deserving* of the team he had picked (that nobody had applied to the previous cycle), he'd have a very small window to go find something else (and might have to go through the same thing yet again).  Who in the right mind, sign up for that as a new user?

WIS would like to be able to pull money in during the entire month for every world, not just when the world job period begin (which is what your suggestion would do as why would any new user ever attempt to reserve a *good* team they find if someone else can just come along and take it from them.


2. If the coach has the best resume, it's  because they earned it, and should get a choice of schools they want.  And if you really think this will be a common issue it won't, because if coaches really leave a school multiple times after 1 season, it will hurt their resume, and they will no longer be hired at the school if anybody else applies.  (and in your scenario, the schools seem worth multiple coaches applying.

Maybe you don't understand but if you let your credits run out, it doesn't affect your resume.  So alternating between cherry picking good teams and letting your credits run out don't hurt you one bit (it will if you stay in the world and jump laterally or down divisions but that's not we're talking about is it.  The one advantage that existing owners have is having a period where only they can apply to any open job (including ones where the owner just left).  What you want is to have existing owners to have even more advantages over new/returning owners which WIS is a business and in order to survive need to also attract those owners else natural attrition will doom their bottom line.

3.  I'm not really sure what you are talking about.  If it's new coaches, then it's  first come first serve during signups.  For returning coaches, they have a resume, and like any other time 2 coaches apply for the same job, best resume wins, and the worse resume has to find another school. 

So are you implying that only a single new owner can click on Reserve team (and still not own it according to you)?  If not, I'm asking what happens when another new owner clicks on <Reserve> for the exact same team. Or are you somehow implying only a single new owner can pick on <Reserve> but every existing owner should be able to apply to that same team if they want to?  As a new owner, they would instantly lose the team in that event so tell me again why would a new owner play this game where any existing owner can click on that  team he picked and boot him off telling him to go find another one?

And the primary difference between first come first serve versus the best resume wins, is that for best resume wins, you aren't forced to find a new school.  If you don't get the job as an existing owner, you remain at your existing school which is NOT the case for a new/returning owner (they would demand there money back since they didn't get what they asked for).






1/22/2016 1:07 AM (edited)
I think the disconnect here is coming on the timing issue of the thing.  I see both sides of the argument and I think it's simply a matter of each individual's "opinion" on when coaches are allowed to reserve a team.  Buddha is saying that they get the leftovers because they only get whats left "after" all the job applications are completed.  So, in essence, every coach who had an existing team in that world had first shot at getting one of those teams that went Sim and passed.

So when the new coach reserves their team sometime during the season, Dan seems upset that none of the other coaches who are currently coaching in that world have the opportunity to put in an app for that team at the end of the season because they are now "gone" by being reserved by the returning coach.  But that goes back to Buddha's point that every coach in the middle of that current season had the opportunity to move to the school that was just reserved, only they instead chose to remain where they were and were planning on moving to the "now" reserved team after the current season finished.

It sounds like (and no offense if I'm looking at this the wrong way Dan), but it sounds like you are wanting to play that last good season with your current team and then move to a new team during job apps that will be very good the following season and are upset that an eagle eyed coach spotted the second team you wanted before the season ended and reserved them, thus not allowing you to have your proverbial cake and eat it too.

1/22/2016 2:11 AM
Posted by dan2044 on 1/21/2016 9:24:00 PM (view original):
I still don't think you are understanding the situation.  What I'm objecting to is new coaches being allowed to reserve a team BEFORE job applications start, which doesn't allow current coaches to even apply.

My suggestion is simple.  New coaches can have DIII team they want that is still available after the job application period.  And returning coaches could either apply during the job application period like everyone else to whatever they qualify for, or pick any team still available after the world roll over.
Is there any scenario in which existing coaches would never have had a shot at an open job?

lets say at the end of season 50 of some world a coach does not renew - that job is open.  Existing coaches have the option to move there.  No one takes or gets the job.

Between seasons 50 and 51 - actually during season 51 - some new coach or a coach who had sat out some seasons comes along and reserves the team.  That is before the end of season 51 jobs cycle.  But it is also after the end of season 50 jobs cycle.

Whats the scenario in which an existing coach does not get at least one shot at an opening?

a. I suppose it is possible if a coach moves in at the very end of the jobs cycle - the very end of the post season 50 jobs cycle.  The vacated job never was open to existing coaches.

b. I suppose it is arguably the case that an existing coach might not qualify for a vacancy at the end of season 50 but does well and would qualify at the end of season 51.   But, he still had a shot 

am I missing a scenario in which an existing coach does not get at least ONE oppprtunity at a job BEFORE a new coach or a returning coach?
1/22/2016 5:35 AM
Posted by dan2044 on 1/21/2016 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by buddhagamer on 1/21/2016 4:51:00 PM (view original):
Every single job opening is available to coaches who have teams in that world *FIRST*.  Only after jobs period is over do new coaches get to reserve a team which is either being run by the SIM or will be run by the SIM in the upcoming season if a new coach does not apply.

Now you can argue that you weren't *qualified* to apply previously but you would of had first shot at applying before the new coach did (although it could of been a very small window if an existing coach moved up late in the job period and you wanted to apply to his old school).
This is not true.  
And the fact that it's not true is exactly the point I'm trying to make.  I'm not trying to prevent any new coaches from getting jobs.  If a coach trys to reserve a team, and no existing coach applies, they can have it.  If another coach does apply, then the new coach still has a day and a half of signups to pick a team they like.

It could be I'm not explaining the situation well.  Or I'm just wrong, and everyone else thinks it makes sense to let new coaches choose over existing coaches.  And I know it's such a small number of situations it matters, but it happens.

This is the most crap I've read in a long time... This is essentially just bickering that you didn't get what you wanted and actually has little to do with an actual problem in the leagues.  

The jobs ARE available to EVERYONE else in the league, first... If no one signed up for them, then ANY coach can take the opening during the following season. If you weren't qualified at the time the team was available, then too bad? Not allowing someone to reserve the teams, or forcing them to take another team is a bunch of crap. I'll be honest, if I was told "Okay, you put in an application, you have to wait until sign-ups to know if you got it", I'd never sign up for this thing. Imagine the frustration of searching through the list, with the most limited knowledge of the team you're getting, finally finding one that you're okay with taking over, and having another owner take it over at the last second, before you. I'd be annoyed.

It's especially unfair to think this way, if someone has a life outside of Whatifsports, and can't be sitting at their computer hours before every deadline to take advantage of the changes, like some people seem to have on this site. Not everyone's life revolves around this game, and it's comical to think that you're upset that Whatifsports allows people to work around their schedules to set themselves up to reserve a team. 

1/22/2016 6:53 AM (edited)
So when the new coach reserves their team sometime during the season, Dan seems upset that none of the other coaches who are currently coaching in that world have the opportunity to put in an app for that team at the end of the season because they are now "gone" by being reserved by the returning coach. But that goes back to Buddha's point that every coach in the middle of that current season had the opportunity to move to the school that was just reserved, only they instead chose to remain where they were and were planning on moving to the "now" reserved team after the current season finished.

Yes, this!.... Coaches DO have the opportunity to sign up for the teams first... No one can leave a high prestige school in the middle of the year. No new coaches can sign up for a school, in the middle of the year, that a coach hasn't re-upped with yet (In other words, all the coaches have a chance to buy credits at seasons end).. As soon as a high prestige school becomes available at seasons end, the current coaches get to sign up for these teams FIRST, before any outsider can even see them. Once the period is over, then the schools open up for everyone. 

It's not like a bunch of top notch schools are being dumped at seasons end, and you simply missed your chance to get them. For whatever reason, people avoided signing up for the new team. Heck, I saw A+ Linfield available MID-WAY thru the world I was joining. You're telling me that people didn't have an opportunity to take an A+ prestige school? Bullcrap.

1/22/2016 7:00 AM
Posted by dan2044 on 1/21/2016 9:27:00 PM (view original):
Zorzii, if at the end of the day, WIS said they wanted to keep it the way it is because they want to grab the new coaches when they can and not make them wait, I can accept that.  But they would still have to admit that the current way it's done is just not logical, which was my point to begin with.
Exactly my point. I agree with you.
1/22/2016 7:58 AM
Ok I guess I was wrong.
Sorry.

It wasn't even a practical situation for me, I just thought this was more logical. Apparently I was wrong.
1/22/2016 8:24 AM
dan, for my part, IF existing coaches really can apply during jobs (and i can see why you would think that, and am really not that confident they cant), then i can see your point. otherwise, i think its like emy is saying, where there is a cyclical process and you are defining the beginning where its not the beginning and that is the problem. 

i think it really comes down to the question of who gets fist dibs. if existing coaches and retired coaches get first shot together, and then retired coaches get second shot, that can seem slightly unfair (although i still would personally err on the side of bringing people back, this game has a serious population problem, gotta make a personal sacrifice on occasion for the good of the game, if called to do so). but, if existing coaches get solo first shot as i am suggesting, and then retired coaches only get a second shot, then i think you have no basis. so, i don't think its totally cut and dry, and i don't think you are at all unreasonable for making your point given that you clearly believe retired coaches get a first shot right along with everyone else.
1/22/2016 8:47 AM
Job Changes should
use the same model as in GD.  Anybody, can apply for any job all season long, just so long as they fufill the minimum requirements.  Then at roll over, job selections are awarded.
1/22/2016 12:21 PM
Posted by wvufan76 on 1/22/2016 12:21:00 PM (view original):
Job Changes should
use the same model as in GD.  Anybody, can apply for any job all season long, just so long as they fufill the minimum requirements.  Then at roll over, job selections are awarded.
I think the GD model uses a "jobs period only" model.  For any time outside the jobs period, existing coaches can only look at SIM available schools (no applying) and new/returning coaches can only be added to a waitlist (which I assume only sends you a sitemail and/or e-mail to when the job period is beginning).  

While this will allow the OP to compete for a team exactly like he wants, I doubt many new/returning GD coaches would prefer this model as it shortens their time to actually select a team to only a very few days (assuming they even notice the e-mail and with most GD worlds at around 25% capacity, I can see why).

Even existing coaches don't know if they qualify to actually apply for any job until the job period begins as that is when the Job Status actually updates indicating if you qualify for the job or not.
1/22/2016 4:27 PM
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