Posted by bhansalid00 on 4/4/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:05:00 AM (view original):
I've sent a ticket. I think it's a problem. But I also think it's a problem, due to the current policy of policing ourselves and reporting any possible violations, that many in the community don't see an issue because it doesn't violate an outdated FPG.

Either way, it needs to be fixed. I will state again if a guy wants 13 teams, he should be able to have 13 teams. But there has to be a way to stop him from cross-referencing scouting. As in, if his D1 school scouts NH, his D3 school cannot. But I think that's a lot of work to program.

Count the number of people on this post who've said it's wrong, vs the number who are defending the practice. Since you started this thread to get a "lay of the land", I'm curious why you're still not satisfied that most users are against multiple teams in the same world?

Can I also count the number who've said "I don't think -insert username- cheats. He's a nice guy"? Answering questions, being polite, being successful, etc, etc doesn't mean you're not cheating. The initial case is very suspicious but virtually no one would even say that it looked "odd". If something didn't look out of whack, the initial thread is never started. But it was "I don't think 0nly cheated. He's very helpful when I've asked him a question."

Posted by whitey34 on 4/4/2017 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 4/4/2017 10:14:00 AM (view original):
I think WIS could write software that looks at

- IP addresses
- credit cards used for payments
- timing of log ons

correlations of the above, raise a question whether there is one owner of two teams - the first two items could well be parent/child, so I would expect WIS to ping such users and ask - do you have two teams. If the answer is oh no, its my son - then if the logons are highly correlated - the easy followup is - really, its odd that you and your son both check your teams within the same few minutes every day for the last 20 days.....

it cant be hard to do something like this.

Exactly!

It's not so much that it's hard. It's that it's not in their interests to restrict how much money someone wants to pay them.

I operate two IDs; the first is me, pkoopman, the second I took over for my son Matt, corresponding with moving the Naismith team from New York to Texas to abide by the 1000 mile rule when he took what appears to be a permanent break. He only really wanted me to keep up his team in Smith, but I held onto the one in Naismith to experiment with FB/P. At this point, I'd rather not drop either (UV or ACU). ACU is a near perennial contender; and I've put up with a lot of losing and a long rebuild at UV to raise from doormat in an A conference to the edge of respectability.

I'm confident I have never overlapped recruiting, because I actively and consciously avoid it. Being open about the teams I run, I have no incentive to even raise any red flags by pursuing recruits at a distance with ACU. If they didn't come from TX or OK, they showed up in my pool via private camp. I don't touch D1 internationals with that team.

All that to say, I'm pretty sure I'm neither violating the FPGs, nor breaking any other explicit rules. Forcing me to drop a team is definitely WIS turning down my money. If they want to do that, fine - but they probably need to be sure that whatever they do is going to stop *actual* cheating, not just disarming the law-abiding.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bhansalid00 on 4/4/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:05:00 AM (view original):
I've sent a ticket. I think it's a problem. But I also think it's a problem, due to the current policy of policing ourselves and reporting any possible violations, that many in the community don't see an issue because it doesn't violate an outdated FPG.

Either way, it needs to be fixed. I will state again if a guy wants 13 teams, he should be able to have 13 teams. But there has to be a way to stop him from cross-referencing scouting. As in, if his D1 school scouts NH, his D3 school cannot. But I think that's a lot of work to program.

Count the number of people on this post who've said it's wrong, vs the number who are defending the practice. Since you started this thread to get a "lay of the land", I'm curious why you're still not satisfied that most users are against multiple teams in the same world?

Can I also count the number who've said "I don't think -insert username- cheats. He's a nice guy"? Answering questions, being polite, being successful, etc, etc doesn't mean you're not cheating. The initial case is very suspicious but virtually no one would even say that it looked "odd". If something didn't look out of whack, the initial thread is never started. But it was "I don't think 0nly cheated. He's very helpful when I've asked him a question."

Quit being so damn hardheaded Mike. Plenty of people said it looked odd. In fact, almost EVERYONE said it looked odd. What people said, that differed from your viewpoint and apparently has you all up in your feelings, is that just because it looked odd didn't "necessarily" mean he cheated. In fact, plenty of people said that he very well might have but that just because it looked that way didn't automatically mean he was guilty. You were the one the rushed to judgment on what looked odd, on a suspicion. All people like Benis were saying is that he needed more concrete proof than something "looking odd" before he convicted the poor guy. It's a very, very simple concept to understand. Why you can't seem to grasp that is what's truly amazing.

Said I wouldn't post again but I couldn't let that flat out lie Mike was telling go unchallenged.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bhansalid00 on 4/4/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:05:00 AM (view original):
I've sent a ticket. I think it's a problem. But I also think it's a problem, due to the current policy of policing ourselves and reporting any possible violations, that many in the community don't see an issue because it doesn't violate an outdated FPG.

Either way, it needs to be fixed. I will state again if a guy wants 13 teams, he should be able to have 13 teams. But there has to be a way to stop him from cross-referencing scouting. As in, if his D1 school scouts NH, his D3 school cannot. But I think that's a lot of work to program.

Count the number of people on this post who've said it's wrong, vs the number who are defending the practice. Since you started this thread to get a "lay of the land", I'm curious why you're still not satisfied that most users are against multiple teams in the same world?

Can I also count the number who've said "I don't think -insert username- cheats. He's a nice guy"? Answering questions, being polite, being successful, etc, etc doesn't mean you're not cheating. The initial case is very suspicious but virtually no one would even say that it looked "odd". If something didn't look out of whack, the initial thread is never started. But it was "I don't think 0nly cheated. He's very helpful when I've asked him a question."

Actually I would like you to count how many people said they don't think he cheated because he's a nice guy. Maybe you'll find two?

Most have said that it looks a little suspicious but is not concrete enough to burst out with Cheater! Cheater! accusations.

Just go by the facts and set your bias against him aside.

Now, for those of you have called me hypocrite, this is a good example.
Shoe3 has helped me a lot. He told me he had his son's ID. I'd say "shoe isn't cheating" simply because he helped me learn the game. So I get it. We "know" people and think there's no way they're bending the rules. But they might be.



I'll add I checked my Smith D3. CT-based. I have a FR from MT. I did stumble across him. I had limited scouting funds left so I scouted the states for $15 per player. I think I had $90 left and MT had 6 players. I recruited him at L1 because he was a ranked player. So it can happen without cheating(assuming you believe I didn't cheat). There's just no way to "catch" someone.

Posted by Benis on 4/4/2017 10:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bhansalid00 on 4/4/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 10:05:00 AM (view original):
I've sent a ticket. I think it's a problem. But I also think it's a problem, due to the current policy of policing ourselves and reporting any possible violations, that many in the community don't see an issue because it doesn't violate an outdated FPG.

Either way, it needs to be fixed. I will state again if a guy wants 13 teams, he should be able to have 13 teams. But there has to be a way to stop him from cross-referencing scouting. As in, if his D1 school scouts NH, his D3 school cannot. But I think that's a lot of work to program.

Count the number of people on this post who've said it's wrong, vs the number who are defending the practice. Since you started this thread to get a "lay of the land", I'm curious why you're still not satisfied that most users are against multiple teams in the same world?

Can I also count the number who've said "I don't think -insert username- cheats. He's a nice guy"? Answering questions, being polite, being successful, etc, etc doesn't mean you're not cheating. The initial case is very suspicious but virtually no one would even say that it looked "odd". If something didn't look out of whack, the initial thread is never started. But it was "I don't think 0nly cheated. He's very helpful when I've asked him a question."

Actually I would like you to count how many people said they don't think he cheated because he's a nice guy. Maybe you'll find two?

Most have said that it looks a little suspicious but is not concrete enough to burst out with Cheater! Cheater! accusations.

Just go by the facts and set your bias against him aside.

I did go by the facts.

And, no, most did not say it looked suspicious. They said "No one should have two teams because of potential conflict" or something to that effect. Then they'd follow with "I don't think he cheated."

You go by the facts and set your mancrush aside.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 9:51:00 AM (view original):
As in most cases, long threads get derailed. Smart people stop paying attention about 3-4 pages in. Only dumbasses like myself stay there.

The point, the entire point of this thread, is to lay out the culture of HD. It seems that exploiting "loopholes" is acceptable. No one wants to upset another user even if they think the other guy might be using said "loopholes" to gain an advantage. So people need to understand they're not a level playing field. And, maybe, just maybe, WifS will take note. Trust me, a ticket will be sent. I think it's insane that people can bend the rules, because they're not explicitly saying "Don't do this" and other users just shake their head or turn a blind eye.

I read your long post. You're reasonable. Others aren't afforded the same because they've proven not to be.

Thought you never posted more than a sentence or two.

Also could have sworn that it was you that said sending in tickets was pussified.

As much as you flip flop and lie you must be a politician. Damn I don't think I've ever seen a more hypocritical person in my life.

Posted by shoe3 on 4/4/2017 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 4/4/2017 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 4/4/2017 10:14:00 AM (view original):
I think WIS could write software that looks at

- IP addresses
- credit cards used for payments
- timing of log ons

correlations of the above, raise a question whether there is one owner of two teams - the first two items could well be parent/child, so I would expect WIS to ping such users and ask - do you have two teams. If the answer is oh no, its my son - then if the logons are highly correlated - the easy followup is - really, its odd that you and your son both check your teams within the same few minutes every day for the last 20 days.....

it cant be hard to do something like this.

Exactly!

It's not so much that it's hard. It's that it's not in their interests to restrict how much money someone wants to pay them.

I operate two IDs; the first is me, pkoopman, the second I took over for my son Matt, corresponding with moving the Naismith team from New York to Texas to abide by the 1000 mile rule when he took what appears to be a permanent break. He only really wanted me to keep up his team in Smith, but I held onto the one in Naismith to experiment with FB/P. At this point, I'd rather not drop either (UV or ACU). ACU is a near perennial contender; and I've put up with a lot of losing and a long rebuild at UV to raise from doormat in an A conference to the edge of respectability.

I'm confident I have never overlapped recruiting, because I actively and consciously avoid it. Being open about the teams I run, I have no incentive to even raise any red flags by pursuing recruits at a distance with ACU. If they didn't come from TX or OK, they showed up in my pool via private camp. I don't touch D1 internationals with that team.

All that to say, I'm pretty sure I'm neither violating the FPGs, nor breaking any other explicit rules. Forcing me to drop a team is definitely WIS turning down my money. If they want to do that, fine - but they probably need to be sure that whatever they do is going to stop *actual* cheating, not just disarming the law-abiding.

Obviously you are the innocent one that would get affected, but I'd rather have a clean game. It's like being back in school. One person ruins it for those who do nothing wrong.

Posted by dcy0827 on 4/4/2017 11:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 9:51:00 AM (view original):
As in most cases, long threads get derailed. Smart people stop paying attention about 3-4 pages in. Only dumbasses like myself stay there.

The point, the entire point of this thread, is to lay out the culture of HD. It seems that exploiting "loopholes" is acceptable. No one wants to upset another user even if they think the other guy might be using said "loopholes" to gain an advantage. So people need to understand they're not a level playing field. And, maybe, just maybe, WifS will take note. Trust me, a ticket will be sent. I think it's insane that people can bend the rules, because they're not explicitly saying "Don't do this" and other users just shake their head or turn a blind eye.

I read your long post. You're reasonable. Others aren't afforded the same because they've proven not to be.

Thought you never posted more than a sentence or two.

Also could have sworn that it was you that said sending in tickets was pussified.

As much as you flip flop and lie you must be a politician. Damn I don't think I've ever seen a more hypocritical person in my life.

I try not to. It happens.

The ticket was sent to enact change, hopefully, in the FPG not to report another user. Different story.

II'm hurt. Probably won't post for an hour or so as I'm so hurt. But please try to understand my statements. No flip-flop.

And thanks for being more succinct. I'll read these. We might become best buds!!!! Later, future BFF!!!!!!

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 11:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 4/4/2017 11:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/4/2017 9:51:00 AM (view original):
As in most cases, long threads get derailed. Smart people stop paying attention about 3-4 pages in. Only dumbasses like myself stay there.

The point, the entire point of this thread, is to lay out the culture of HD. It seems that exploiting "loopholes" is acceptable. No one wants to upset another user even if they think the other guy might be using said "loopholes" to gain an advantage. So people need to understand they're not a level playing field. And, maybe, just maybe, WifS will take note. Trust me, a ticket will be sent. I think it's insane that people can bend the rules, because they're not explicitly saying "Don't do this" and other users just shake their head or turn a blind eye.

I read your long post. You're reasonable. Others aren't afforded the same because they've proven not to be.

Thought you never posted more than a sentence or two.

Also could have sworn that it was you that said sending in tickets was pussified.

As much as you flip flop and lie you must be a politician. Damn I don't think I've ever seen a more hypocritical person in my life.

I try not to. It happens.

The ticket was sent to enact change, hopefully, in the FPG not to report another user. Different story.

II'm hurt. Probably won't post for an hour or so as I'm so hurt. But please try to understand my statements. No flip-flop.

And thanks for being more succinct. I'll read these. We might become best buds!!!! Later, future BFF!!!!!!

Can't wait sweetheart. I call top bunk.

Oh, and you'll definitely be "catching" FYI.

See ya sugar!

I mostly access my WIS account through my work which goes through a Japan server, but I also use my cellphone, and on weekends both of my kid's I-pads, and sometimes my son's home computer.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not very Tech savvy, but I don't think the IP address blockage is any kind of solution.

And they need to rename this forum "The Days of Our Hoops Dynasty Lives", because some of you guys are acting like you live in a soap opera.

Posted by skinndogg on 4/4/2017 11:59:00 AM (view original):
I mostly access my WIS account through my work which goes through a Japan server, but I also use my cellphone, and on weekends both of my kid's I-pads, and sometimes my son's home computer.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not very Tech savvy, but I don't think the IP address blockage is any kind of solution.

And they need to rename this forum "The Days of Our Hoops Dynasty Lives", because some of you guys are acting like you live in a soap opera.

So let people continue to cheat? Tracing the IP is the only solution to prevent cheating.

Posted by whitey34 on 4/4/2017 12:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skinndogg on 4/4/2017 11:59:00 AM (view original):
I mostly access my WIS account through my work which goes through a Japan server, but I also use my cellphone, and on weekends both of my kid's I-pads, and sometimes my son's home computer.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not very Tech savvy, but I don't think the IP address blockage is any kind of solution.

And they need to rename this forum "The Days of Our Hoops Dynasty Lives", because some of you guys are acting like you live in a soap opera.

So let people continue to cheat? Tracing the IP is the only solution to prevent cheating.

IP addresses can be the same for those living in an apartment building or dorm or anyone who shares a router.

The best solution would be to DESIGN the game so that users with multiple IDs could continue to use them but that it wouldn't provide any game play advantage.

Ideally, people just wouldn't feel compelled to cheat at an internet simgame. But that's not what people are. IP addresses, credit cards, etc, etc, can't stop it. For the reasons listed. It truthfully has to be a community effort, with host company cooperation, but, as best I can tell, no one wants to report anything "suspicious". I don't. It's work. More work in HD than HBD.

HBD has log-in times. But there are only 32 teams. Aliases are generally dumb and log-in on their 2nd account within minutes of logging off the other. They argue the same points and, often, have an odd trade history with one another. They give themselves away.

The only way to even get a feel for it in HD is to see scouting. We can't do that. WifS has to. Good luck with that.

Posted by possumfiend on 4/4/2017 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 4/4/2017 12:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skinndogg on 4/4/2017 11:59:00 AM (view original):
I mostly access my WIS account through my work which goes through a Japan server, but I also use my cellphone, and on weekends both of my kid's I-pads, and sometimes my son's home computer.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not very Tech savvy, but I don't think the IP address blockage is any kind of solution.

And they need to rename this forum "The Days of Our Hoops Dynasty Lives", because some of you guys are acting like you live in a soap opera.

So let people continue to cheat? Tracing the IP is the only solution to prevent cheating.

IP addresses can be the same for those living in an apartment building or dorm or anyone who shares a router.

The best solution would be to DESIGN the game so that users with multiple IDs could continue to use them but that it wouldn't provide any game play advantage.

Design? I get what you are saying, but we are waking about whatif here. No chance of that ever happening.

so we want something done about cheating, but really we don't. Everyone keeps going in circles. There are these things today called smart phones... People in the same house can use theirs to still play the game if they watch the IPs. I play this game 90% of the time on my phone.

There are no solutions besides IP tracing. Like I said I play in a football sim and it has worked fantastic there! But people aren't wanting to give anything up to clean the game up. The cheating topic should just end then and who cares if people cheat. Live and let live