Cheater Confirmed! Topic

Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 10:49:00 AM (view original):
the rage of the forums in that era was that -5 was an exploit, I think it was -5 man, but all -5 was considered I think the word 'gimmick' might have been used. Tarke ran a bunch of simulations to prove it wasn't, he posted them, same two teams vs each other, 500 games each running all 11 defenses, -5 thru +5. 0 was the best, -5 the worst, +5 the second worst, BUT all were pretty close, and some were out of order (+1, -1, 0 were very close to each other)

additionally, if teams doubled (DT'ing was an upgrade to the orig engine) the best perimeter players & played -5, it worked even better according to the forums.

at the time, all my west conn d3 title teams and all ten of my teams, ran FCP with 0, I almost never changed, and if I did, it was +1 or -1. anyhow, as result of all this posting, I decided I'd try the opposite of the defense everyone thought was so great. In addition, I think at the time, nobody had won a title using combo defenses, so I set out to show I could win titles without FCP'ing, so I switched all ten of my teams to +5, dt'ing the best two inside guys, running man - fcp combo. I ran it for about 2 seasons of ten teams, so 20 or so, not sure if there even where ten worlds back then, but I think there were.

I kept winning, didn't really think I had unconvered a glitch or anything, cause I also was winning without it.

but oldave didn't think my defense was fair. He later sitemailed me explaining that he'd worked with CS to change the engine when a team dt'd big men. It turned out CS/tarek found out that in the code, when one dt'd big men, it counted those big men as potential defensive reobunders, so instead of 2 or 3 guys I had 4 or 5. All ten of my teams led the nation in rebounding (I really didn't even know that, but oldave told me, tarek never contacted me), and the margin wasn't that close (say by 5 in most worlds, even though back in that day, I almost always started 3 guards). so I got the benefit of +5 (I think I ended up +2, back then I used to experiment all season long with most of my teams) to stop 3's, I got the turnover benefit of some pressing, and I almost never gave up an offensive reboound, plus I dt'd both of the other team's star big men.

You can judge me or my intentions, feel free to. but I must admit, I never gave my strategy a 2nd thought at the time as either being a glitch or unfair, until oldave sitemailed me and told me what took place and why. I don't think anyone but oldave and I (and tarek) knew anything about this, but oldave is the guy who could really tell the story.
I remember being knocked out of the NTs several times by your West Connecticut State team (I think I was at either Colorado College or Palm Beach Atlantic.) I thought I had the better teams but I couldn't come up with an answer to the gameplan strategy you employed.

It was frustrating but never did I think you were gaming the system. You were simply out-coaching me.
11/7/2022 11:07 AM
Posted by davis on 11/7/2022 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by salag on 11/7/2022 9:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Benis on 11/7/2022 8:39:00 AM (view original):
Swenske's autopilot team just upset the #1 seed to reach the E8. The best run at St John's in 12 seasons.

The HD gods are now just being silly.
The absolute worst. Not enough for him to win Conference Coach of the Year.
If I had to face him in the tournament, I'd be all over customer service about it. The team should have been barred from the postseason.

Luckily, I avoided the whole situation by building a team that was not at the level to make it beyond the first round.
CS told me they can't omit teams like that...
11/7/2022 11:25 AM
Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 10:49:00 AM (view original):
the rage of the forums in that era was that -5 was an exploit, I think it was -5 man, but all -5 was considered I think the word 'gimmick' might have been used. Tarke ran a bunch of simulations to prove it wasn't, he posted them, same two teams vs each other, 500 games each running all 11 defenses, -5 thru +5. 0 was the best, -5 the worst, +5 the second worst, BUT all were pretty close, and some were out of order (+1, -1, 0 were very close to each other)

additionally, if teams doubled (DT'ing was an upgrade to the orig engine) the best perimeter players & played -5, it worked even better according to the forums.

at the time, all my west conn d3 title teams and all ten of my teams, ran FCP with 0, I almost never changed, and if I did, it was +1 or -1. anyhow, as result of all this posting, I decided I'd try the opposite of the defense everyone thought was so great. In addition, I think at the time, nobody had won a title using combo defenses, so I set out to show I could win titles without FCP'ing, so I switched all ten of my teams to +5, dt'ing the best two inside guys, running man - fcp combo. I ran it for about 2 seasons of ten teams, so 20 or so, not sure if there even where ten worlds back then, but I think there were.

I kept winning, didn't really think I had unconvered a glitch or anything, cause I also was winning without it.

but oldave didn't think my defense was fair. He later sitemailed me explaining that he'd worked with CS to change the engine when a team dt'd big men. It turned out CS/tarek found out that in the code, when one dt'd big men, it counted those big men as potential defensive reobunders, so instead of 2 or 3 guys I had 4 or 5. All ten of my teams led the nation in rebounding (I really didn't even know that, but oldave told me, tarek never contacted me), and the margin wasn't that close (say by 5 in most worlds, even though back in that day, I almost always started 3 guards). so I got the benefit of +5 (I think I ended up +2, back then I used to experiment all season long with most of my teams) to stop 3's, I got the turnover benefit of some pressing, and I almost never gave up an offensive reboound, plus I dt'd both of the other team's star big men.

You can judge me or my intentions, feel free to. but I must admit, I never gave my strategy a 2nd thought at the time as either being a glitch or unfair, until oldave sitemailed me and told me what took place and why. I don't think anyone but oldave and I (and tarek) knew anything about this, but oldave is the guy who could really tell the story.
I remember being knocked out of the NTs several times by your West Connecticut State team (I think I was at either Colorado College or Palm Beach Atlantic.) I thought I had the better teams but I couldn't come up with an answer to the gameplan strategy you employed.

It was frustrating but never did I think you were gaming the system. You were simply out-coaching me.
that's a long time ago. Hope all is well. did you play the game this whole while, or leave and come back. I wonder how many of us are left from that era. I did not start season one, but maybe around season 5 or 10 of the game, before any of the two a day worlds were put in place, but I think the 7 one a day worlds were all there when I started.

I think I had a team in palm beach atlantic's conference in a different world, maybe methodist? In those early days, that was one of my favorite teams, methodist that is.

I sitemailed oldave and told him I mentioned him in that post, the message got delivered, so maybe he'll chime in. o'm curiouos of his perspective of that story.
11/7/2022 11:27 AM
Hey OR!!!! Great to hear from ya!

are you sure that was me?

we went head to head in the very early days of tark. Me at cuse and you at uconn. Orangedudes did ok and won one nc. Feels like you won like 10 nc in the first 10 years of tark.

my real “talent” at that time was my ability to rattle off 10 page rants about how refs had screwed me or my guys werent giving enough effort or whatever

I never understood why uconn kept winning nc. I felt like most years my talent was equal or better. And we would win in reg season often enough. I blamed in on the “fastbroke” offense. I have this thing where i almost never change off and def from what it is when i took over. Not sure why. But cuse was fb press and i swore that fb a huge disadvantage for me…. Bit never changed

ironically i have had only one team for quite a while now…. And we run fastbeak! And i still hate it!!!!

11/7/2022 11:58 AM
As for the current controversy…. I think its a fine line. Because the whole point to the game is to try to uncover places where you can gain an edge. I kinda feel like thats all they did so good for them. I do see the other side too and so i can understand some kind of punishment i guess. But i cant see the need for the vitriol.
11/7/2022 12:03 PM
hey OR! just for the record you got to loyola chicago in season 0006 of tark i got to D1 louisiana lafayette (ulala) in season 0005. seems like there was one or two other coaches in d1 in tark 0005?

looking back i assume you were eligible for d1 after season 0004 as you had won d2 nc in 0002 and 0004 but i guess you wanted to add another title at wconnst which you did in 0005
11/7/2022 12:37 PM
Posted by oldave on 11/7/2022 12:37:00 PM (view original):
hey OR! just for the record you got to loyola chicago in season 0006 of tark i got to D1 louisiana lafayette (ulala) in season 0005. seems like there was one or two other coaches in d1 in tark 0005?

looking back i assume you were eligible for d1 after season 0004 as you had won d2 nc in 0002 and 0004 but i guess you wanted to add another title at wconnst which you did in 0005
didn't mean to create this history lesson, but it was fun to catch up. I think what took place, I stayed at west conn and was not eligible for d1 after year 4 because west conn was d3 not d2. At the time, nobody had skipped to d1 from d3 until I did from west conn state, that was the first I was part of.

remember how hard it was to get to major conferences? I was at loyola a few yrs, then at cal a few yrs, b4 I got to uconn. You might have gotten to syracuse b4 I got to uconn too, I can't quite recall. I can't recall if I won any NT's at either loyala or cal, I think cal won 1-2, it took that to qualify for uconn or an A+ prestige school back in those days though.

for those who cringe at 'exploits' from the modern game, in the 'good old days', very early, before I was in a major conference, one worlds acc, I thinik most all of them were tarek's buddies, they would draft recruits from their market, in order of how good the teams were, so they wouldn't compete for recruits. I found this out, I was in a low d1 in their market, I recruited someone who was drafted, I got a nasty note and a promise 'I'd never get another recruit in this game again'. That was the wild wild west of what if, to be sure.
11/7/2022 12:58 PM
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 11:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 10:49:00 AM (view original):
the rage of the forums in that era was that -5 was an exploit, I think it was -5 man, but all -5 was considered I think the word 'gimmick' might have been used. Tarke ran a bunch of simulations to prove it wasn't, he posted them, same two teams vs each other, 500 games each running all 11 defenses, -5 thru +5. 0 was the best, -5 the worst, +5 the second worst, BUT all were pretty close, and some were out of order (+1, -1, 0 were very close to each other)

additionally, if teams doubled (DT'ing was an upgrade to the orig engine) the best perimeter players & played -5, it worked even better according to the forums.

at the time, all my west conn d3 title teams and all ten of my teams, ran FCP with 0, I almost never changed, and if I did, it was +1 or -1. anyhow, as result of all this posting, I decided I'd try the opposite of the defense everyone thought was so great. In addition, I think at the time, nobody had won a title using combo defenses, so I set out to show I could win titles without FCP'ing, so I switched all ten of my teams to +5, dt'ing the best two inside guys, running man - fcp combo. I ran it for about 2 seasons of ten teams, so 20 or so, not sure if there even where ten worlds back then, but I think there were.

I kept winning, didn't really think I had unconvered a glitch or anything, cause I also was winning without it.

but oldave didn't think my defense was fair. He later sitemailed me explaining that he'd worked with CS to change the engine when a team dt'd big men. It turned out CS/tarek found out that in the code, when one dt'd big men, it counted those big men as potential defensive reobunders, so instead of 2 or 3 guys I had 4 or 5. All ten of my teams led the nation in rebounding (I really didn't even know that, but oldave told me, tarek never contacted me), and the margin wasn't that close (say by 5 in most worlds, even though back in that day, I almost always started 3 guards). so I got the benefit of +5 (I think I ended up +2, back then I used to experiment all season long with most of my teams) to stop 3's, I got the turnover benefit of some pressing, and I almost never gave up an offensive reboound, plus I dt'd both of the other team's star big men.

You can judge me or my intentions, feel free to. but I must admit, I never gave my strategy a 2nd thought at the time as either being a glitch or unfair, until oldave sitemailed me and told me what took place and why. I don't think anyone but oldave and I (and tarek) knew anything about this, but oldave is the guy who could really tell the story.
I remember being knocked out of the NTs several times by your West Connecticut State team (I think I was at either Colorado College or Palm Beach Atlantic.) I thought I had the better teams but I couldn't come up with an answer to the gameplan strategy you employed.

It was frustrating but never did I think you were gaming the system. You were simply out-coaching me.
that's a long time ago. Hope all is well. did you play the game this whole while, or leave and come back. I wonder how many of us are left from that era. I did not start season one, but maybe around season 5 or 10 of the game, before any of the two a day worlds were put in place, but I think the 7 one a day worlds were all there when I started.

I think I had a team in palm beach atlantic's conference in a different world, maybe methodist? In those early days, that was one of my favorite teams, methodist that is.

I sitemailed oldave and told him I mentioned him in that post, the message got delivered, so maybe he'll chime in. o'm curiouos of his perspective of that story.
Hey OR, all is well. I started Naismith Season 5 (2004) and played in all worlds except Allen through 1.0 (my favorite - I loved the flexibility of linear/non-capped player development,) through all of 2.0 - which had its good and bad...and then left after a handful of years with 3.0, which I really don't care for how recruiting is set up. I just came back for the fist time since 2020 a few months ago.

oldave, lostmyth, davis...man, there was some legendary DIII competition back then. All of you guys used to collectively boot me out of the S16, E8 and F4 like clockwork. The game was a lot of fun back then.
11/7/2022 1:22 PM
Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 1:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 11:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 10:49:00 AM (view original):
the rage of the forums in that era was that -5 was an exploit, I think it was -5 man, but all -5 was considered I think the word 'gimmick' might have been used. Tarke ran a bunch of simulations to prove it wasn't, he posted them, same two teams vs each other, 500 games each running all 11 defenses, -5 thru +5. 0 was the best, -5 the worst, +5 the second worst, BUT all were pretty close, and some were out of order (+1, -1, 0 were very close to each other)

additionally, if teams doubled (DT'ing was an upgrade to the orig engine) the best perimeter players & played -5, it worked even better according to the forums.

at the time, all my west conn d3 title teams and all ten of my teams, ran FCP with 0, I almost never changed, and if I did, it was +1 or -1. anyhow, as result of all this posting, I decided I'd try the opposite of the defense everyone thought was so great. In addition, I think at the time, nobody had won a title using combo defenses, so I set out to show I could win titles without FCP'ing, so I switched all ten of my teams to +5, dt'ing the best two inside guys, running man - fcp combo. I ran it for about 2 seasons of ten teams, so 20 or so, not sure if there even where ten worlds back then, but I think there were.

I kept winning, didn't really think I had unconvered a glitch or anything, cause I also was winning without it.

but oldave didn't think my defense was fair. He later sitemailed me explaining that he'd worked with CS to change the engine when a team dt'd big men. It turned out CS/tarek found out that in the code, when one dt'd big men, it counted those big men as potential defensive reobunders, so instead of 2 or 3 guys I had 4 or 5. All ten of my teams led the nation in rebounding (I really didn't even know that, but oldave told me, tarek never contacted me), and the margin wasn't that close (say by 5 in most worlds, even though back in that day, I almost always started 3 guards). so I got the benefit of +5 (I think I ended up +2, back then I used to experiment all season long with most of my teams) to stop 3's, I got the turnover benefit of some pressing, and I almost never gave up an offensive reboound, plus I dt'd both of the other team's star big men.

You can judge me or my intentions, feel free to. but I must admit, I never gave my strategy a 2nd thought at the time as either being a glitch or unfair, until oldave sitemailed me and told me what took place and why. I don't think anyone but oldave and I (and tarek) knew anything about this, but oldave is the guy who could really tell the story.
I remember being knocked out of the NTs several times by your West Connecticut State team (I think I was at either Colorado College or Palm Beach Atlantic.) I thought I had the better teams but I couldn't come up with an answer to the gameplan strategy you employed.

It was frustrating but never did I think you were gaming the system. You were simply out-coaching me.
that's a long time ago. Hope all is well. did you play the game this whole while, or leave and come back. I wonder how many of us are left from that era. I did not start season one, but maybe around season 5 or 10 of the game, before any of the two a day worlds were put in place, but I think the 7 one a day worlds were all there when I started.

I think I had a team in palm beach atlantic's conference in a different world, maybe methodist? In those early days, that was one of my favorite teams, methodist that is.

I sitemailed oldave and told him I mentioned him in that post, the message got delivered, so maybe he'll chime in. o'm curiouos of his perspective of that story.
Hey OR, all is well. I started Naismith Season 5 (2004) and played in all worlds except Allen through 1.0 (my favorite - I loved the flexibility of linear/non-capped player development,) through all of 2.0 - which had its good and bad...and then left after a handful of years with 3.0, which I really don't care for how recruiting is set up. I just came back for the fist time since 2020 a few months ago.

oldave, lostmyth, davis...man, there was some legendary DIII competition back then. All of you guys used to collectively boot me out of the S16, E8 and F4 like clockwork. The game was a lot of fun back then.
I liked the old recruiting setup alot more too, prior to prestige. I thought it gave all coaches a much more equal shot at winning, since the only limitation on your ability to improve players was your imagination, within the limits of how you allocated practice pts.

talking about old coaches, was 'Plumpy' the first HD GOAT coach? That's how I recall it at least.
11/7/2022 2:30 PM
i wasn't around in the early days. i only started in like, 2007 or something (only! 15 years, good grief... i need to retire again). IMO, when a game is really early, there are tons of great imbalances, and i think some of those really early years like 2004 era, it sounds more like a beta test than a polished game.

my original GOAT is oldresorter. it obviously says something that his original GOAT was plumpy, but i only ever was able to track down like 5-6 titles by plumpy in those early days? i guess i am just not sure the game was around long enough, in stable enough form, to have a GOAT, that early. nothing against plumpy! sounds like a good guy. and a lot of old timers all looked at him as being on another level, which says quite a lot. if you want to know who the best is, you don't poll the overall community, you poll the top 25.

by the time i came around, the game had several hundred seasons simulated across the worlds. the game had more or less stabilized, a lot of the really wonky stuff had been worked out already. it was clear on the day i joined that OR was the goat, for a few reasons. he had the most titles by a mile, which isn't always the best indicator, due to number of teams carried, but its certainly a big indicator, and OR's lead was quite substantial. on the raw dominance front, there were only 3 programs who had 3peats, and two were ORs, including the game's only d1 3peat. props to rails on having a 5 peat and a separate 3 peat all from the same program, that was legendary.

perhaps above all, in my way of thinking anyway, Tark was the first new world ever, and it seems like more or less, a who's who of HD coaches joined in the hopes of obtaining the first A+ programs and all that. when you have so many top coaches competing like that, if one coach really outshines the rest, that means a lot. OR towered over early tark like a giant, with the greatest d1 and d3 program game-wide, not only at that moment but of all time up to that point. he truly had no rival.

that's why OR is the original GOAT in my mind. and very possibly still retains that title.

in fairness, if i were to make a case against OR as the all time GOAT, it would go like this. the major success all came in 1.0, not 2.0 or 3.0, which leaves room perhaps for a similar argument i made against plumpy here, that OR's great successes were all fairly early. also, pulldowns were absolute BS back then. i read the forums at a frantic pace, so by my 2nd season ever, i understood pulldowns - but i was in a pretty small minority. i thought my 2nd ever class was 1 seed material, which was demonstrated to be true, they pulled the 2nd #1 seed as seniors. which should never happen. the advantage of knowing pulldowns meant that i didn't feel that any coach who didn't know pulldowns, was competition for me, even though i was still a rookie. however, there were also 180 coaches in those divisions back then. did OR and rails really have less competition than d2/d3 with the 60 or 70 coaches we've seen recently? tough sell. also, one could also argue that at the onset of a d1 world, there is less competition, which is at least half true - when OR first arrived at uconn and has his way with d1 tark, lots of BCS jobs were empty. but he also beat out the cream of the crop of HD coaches, in getting to high d1 early. a group of very good, very motivated coaches. i think that speaks louder, but an argument could be made there.

anyway, IMO, no matter how you slice it, emphasizing the disadvantages, minimizing the success, and even if you call plumpy the original GOAT... OR was the GOAT of the overall 1.0 era (pre-potential). by a mile. so if he wants to call plumpy the original GOAT, i am ok with that, nobody has a better vantage point on the subject than he does.
11/7/2022 3:13 PM
I think this is maybe my first post ever. I've been a longtime WIS user--many seasons of HBD, GD and HD--I'm not very good. It's a fun game for me to play and keep an eye on; a daily distraction from the rest of my crazy life.

I used to spend a LOT more time on all of the games--I was better then, but it's always just been a hobby to me. Just for a little background. For some reason, I've found the 30 pages of this thread (and now many many pages on the thread started by Ccobb) absolutely fascinating. Fascinating enough to compel me to actually post. My thoughts, FWIW...probably not a ton.
  1. As someone who has coached in D1, but never at a high prestige school, this is a massive advantage. Allocating APs is a painful process, in my opinion--I never have enough!!!!! The opportunity cost of any decision is huge--aim too high and you're screwed; aim too low and you can never improve the standing of your squad.
  2. I mean--the sheer idea that you can, for FREE, have MORE APs in the first few cycles on an UNLIMITED number of players is absolutely mind boggling. And more mind boggling is that people better at this game than me don't see that as the HUGE advantage it was...or may better said, the HUGE disadvantage it was for the 99.99% NOT using this loophole.
  3. I mean--for free...they can open up a scholarship offer and potentially offer it before almost anyone else by using these actions. And as others have pointed out--it defies real-world logic as somehow being a benefit. I agree with the new negative net value; at best it should have been neutral, never net positive.
  4. Can you imagine thinking yourself an online college sports simulation wizard because you found a non-sensical loophole that happened to make you (and your family, apparently) the best recruiters in the worlds in which you played? And somehow convincing yourself the success in this silly game was because of said smarts and intelligence as opposed to what it actually was...cheating? I mean...if this is what you're hanging your hat on in life, I feel a bit sorry for you and have empathy. Hope you can keep winning fake championships to prop yourself up...we all need our crutches to make it through.
  5. I just don't have any naivete about the fact that highly successful, experienced coaches didn't know what they were doing was a huge advantage. They knew and they exploited it (clearly by the numbers...and Swenske....wow. Hope that dude isn't an account or something. Yikes).
I wish I knew about this earlier, to be honest...there are some coaches that have always kicked my rear end in recruiting and it always felt like they targeted guys I was on earlier. I would have gladly taken a ban just to get back at them a time or two, but I would have full on known what I was doing was wrong while doing it. Alas, those coaches aren't on the list--so it's back to what I always thought...they're just better at the game than me, which is all good.

Signing off...probably won't ever post again...but, I'll be lurking.
11/7/2022 4:37 PM
plumpy had "it" call it charisma or whatever but he had it. my memory is that he was a really good and knowledgeable coach but would have guessed he had no more than 5 nc. my story has always been that his last nc was against me in year 0001 of tark. as i recall it, he just kinda went awol and disappeared midway thru the year. and he was a huge forum presence so his absence was very noticeable. so his team, which was pretty good but not great limped along and got into the NT (remember year 0001 means every player on every team was pretty much random and zero of "your" recruits... lots of parity) still no word from him and his team keeps chugging along,,, and meets my hobawilly team in the finals and beats us, and is never heard from again. at least thats how i remember it.

but... in researching it just now, the guy that beat me was plumpy3 i cant recall if the original plumpy was just plumpy? or plumpy3. and if the orginal was plumpy, not sure if this was an alias of his or people screwing around (there were several instances of coaches whose name was very similar to a previous coach but was a totally different guy and often used to post and confuse people.

also this plumpy3 only ever has the one NC also he came back for a few years around season 100 of tark but was awful (maybe bought 5 pack and decided he didnt llike it and let the team ghost?) i feel like i vaguely remember that

two things plumpy was famous for there was a picture of him floating around the forums where he was in a gorilla suit, also he must have had some kind of webcrawler program,,, if you posted in the forums (any forum) any of several keywords like plumpy or pizza or ice cream,, he immediately posted. immediately.
and he did some kind of thing with exclamation points like " Hello!!!!!!!1" always with the 1 at the end

history class dismissed
11/7/2022 4:51 PM
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 1:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 11:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/7/2022 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 11/7/2022 10:49:00 AM (view original):
the rage of the forums in that era was that -5 was an exploit, I think it was -5 man, but all -5 was considered I think the word 'gimmick' might have been used. Tarke ran a bunch of simulations to prove it wasn't, he posted them, same two teams vs each other, 500 games each running all 11 defenses, -5 thru +5. 0 was the best, -5 the worst, +5 the second worst, BUT all were pretty close, and some were out of order (+1, -1, 0 were very close to each other)

additionally, if teams doubled (DT'ing was an upgrade to the orig engine) the best perimeter players & played -5, it worked even better according to the forums.

at the time, all my west conn d3 title teams and all ten of my teams, ran FCP with 0, I almost never changed, and if I did, it was +1 or -1. anyhow, as result of all this posting, I decided I'd try the opposite of the defense everyone thought was so great. In addition, I think at the time, nobody had won a title using combo defenses, so I set out to show I could win titles without FCP'ing, so I switched all ten of my teams to +5, dt'ing the best two inside guys, running man - fcp combo. I ran it for about 2 seasons of ten teams, so 20 or so, not sure if there even where ten worlds back then, but I think there were.

I kept winning, didn't really think I had unconvered a glitch or anything, cause I also was winning without it.

but oldave didn't think my defense was fair. He later sitemailed me explaining that he'd worked with CS to change the engine when a team dt'd big men. It turned out CS/tarek found out that in the code, when one dt'd big men, it counted those big men as potential defensive reobunders, so instead of 2 or 3 guys I had 4 or 5. All ten of my teams led the nation in rebounding (I really didn't even know that, but oldave told me, tarek never contacted me), and the margin wasn't that close (say by 5 in most worlds, even though back in that day, I almost always started 3 guards). so I got the benefit of +5 (I think I ended up +2, back then I used to experiment all season long with most of my teams) to stop 3's, I got the turnover benefit of some pressing, and I almost never gave up an offensive reboound, plus I dt'd both of the other team's star big men.

You can judge me or my intentions, feel free to. but I must admit, I never gave my strategy a 2nd thought at the time as either being a glitch or unfair, until oldave sitemailed me and told me what took place and why. I don't think anyone but oldave and I (and tarek) knew anything about this, but oldave is the guy who could really tell the story.
I remember being knocked out of the NTs several times by your West Connecticut State team (I think I was at either Colorado College or Palm Beach Atlantic.) I thought I had the better teams but I couldn't come up with an answer to the gameplan strategy you employed.

It was frustrating but never did I think you were gaming the system. You were simply out-coaching me.
that's a long time ago. Hope all is well. did you play the game this whole while, or leave and come back. I wonder how many of us are left from that era. I did not start season one, but maybe around season 5 or 10 of the game, before any of the two a day worlds were put in place, but I think the 7 one a day worlds were all there when I started.

I think I had a team in palm beach atlantic's conference in a different world, maybe methodist? In those early days, that was one of my favorite teams, methodist that is.

I sitemailed oldave and told him I mentioned him in that post, the message got delivered, so maybe he'll chime in. o'm curiouos of his perspective of that story.
Hey OR, all is well. I started Naismith Season 5 (2004) and played in all worlds except Allen through 1.0 (my favorite - I loved the flexibility of linear/non-capped player development,) through all of 2.0 - which had its good and bad...and then left after a handful of years with 3.0, which I really don't care for how recruiting is set up. I just came back for the fist time since 2020 a few months ago.

oldave, lostmyth, davis...man, there was some legendary DIII competition back then. All of you guys used to collectively boot me out of the S16, E8 and F4 like clockwork. The game was a lot of fun back then.
I liked the old recruiting setup alot more too, prior to prestige. I thought it gave all coaches a much more equal shot at winning, since the only limitation on your ability to improve players was your imagination, within the limits of how you allocated practice pts.

talking about old coaches, was 'Plumpy' the first HD GOAT coach? That's how I recall it at least.
I would have listed you as the first. Plumpy was a great character and always had competitive teams but I wouldn't have given him that title. johnsensing was another great one, GOAT worthy.
11/7/2022 5:40 PM
Posted by rbennett99 on 11/7/2022 4:37:00 PM (view original):
I think this is maybe my first post ever. I've been a longtime WIS user--many seasons of HBD, GD and HD--I'm not very good. It's a fun game for me to play and keep an eye on; a daily distraction from the rest of my crazy life.

I used to spend a LOT more time on all of the games--I was better then, but it's always just been a hobby to me. Just for a little background. For some reason, I've found the 30 pages of this thread (and now many many pages on the thread started by Ccobb) absolutely fascinating. Fascinating enough to compel me to actually post. My thoughts, FWIW...probably not a ton.
  1. As someone who has coached in D1, but never at a high prestige school, this is a massive advantage. Allocating APs is a painful process, in my opinion--I never have enough!!!!! The opportunity cost of any decision is huge--aim too high and you're screwed; aim too low and you can never improve the standing of your squad.
  2. I mean--the sheer idea that you can, for FREE, have MORE APs in the first few cycles on an UNLIMITED number of players is absolutely mind boggling. And more mind boggling is that people better at this game than me don't see that as the HUGE advantage it was...or may better said, the HUGE disadvantage it was for the 99.99% NOT using this loophole.
  3. I mean--for free...they can open up a scholarship offer and potentially offer it before almost anyone else by using these actions. And as others have pointed out--it defies real-world logic as somehow being a benefit. I agree with the new negative net value; at best it should have been neutral, never net positive.
  4. Can you imagine thinking yourself an online college sports simulation wizard because you found a non-sensical loophole that happened to make you (and your family, apparently) the best recruiters in the worlds in which you played? And somehow convincing yourself the success in this silly game was because of said smarts and intelligence as opposed to what it actually was...cheating? I mean...if this is what you're hanging your hat on in life, I feel a bit sorry for you and have empathy. Hope you can keep winning fake championships to prop yourself up...we all need our crutches to make it through.
  5. I just don't have any naivete about the fact that highly successful, experienced coaches didn't know what they were doing was a huge advantage. They knew and they exploited it (clearly by the numbers...and Swenske....wow. Hope that dude isn't an account or something. Yikes).
I wish I knew about this earlier, to be honest...there are some coaches that have always kicked my rear end in recruiting and it always felt like they targeted guys I was on earlier. I would have gladly taken a ban just to get back at them a time or two, but I would have full on known what I was doing was wrong while doing it. Alas, those coaches aren't on the list--so it's back to what I always thought...they're just better at the game than me, which is all good.

Signing off...probably won't ever post again...but, I'll be lurking.
Co-sign. Amazing that people are still trying to wriggle out of calling it Cheating when there is an entire section in the FairPlay Guidelines titled “Cheating” in large bold font which continues on to describe loopholes, glitches, etc as exactly that.
11/7/2022 6:24 PM
Posted by salag on 11/7/2022 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by davis on 11/7/2022 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by salag on 11/7/2022 9:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Benis on 11/7/2022 8:39:00 AM (view original):
Swenske's autopilot team just upset the #1 seed to reach the E8. The best run at St John's in 12 seasons.

The HD gods are now just being silly.
The absolute worst. Not enough for him to win Conference Coach of the Year.
If I had to face him in the tournament, I'd be all over customer service about it. The team should have been barred from the postseason.

Luckily, I avoided the whole situation by building a team that was not at the level to make it beyond the first round.
CS told me they can't omit teams like that...
I’m really disappointed in that. Not only did I have to recruit against him for years, but I got knocked out by his team in the second round. I wasn’t a title contender, but it was the best team I’ve ever had. So, very disappointing that I had to play a team that was built by cheating.
11/7/2022 7:31 PM
◂ Prev 1...28|29|30|31|32...37 Next ▸
Cheater Confirmed! Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.