Guys like Russell and Wilt would still be good today, but their athletic advantage would be significantly lessened by having more similar athletes around. No more Wilt posting up on 6'7 white guys (watch some of the footage of the 1957 national championship game - which my Tar Heels won! - if you want to get an idea what it was like.) Wilt was an incredible athlete then and would be an incredible athlete now, but the gap has lessened drastically. The physical/athletic difference between, say, Lebron and your everyday NBA player today is much less than the difference between Wilt and the everyday player back then. Wilt probably wouldn't average 30 today, much less 50.

BTW - don't knock Cousy in the SIM. I'm trying to talk myself into making him work on these teams.

Posted by ashamael on 5/27/2020 2:19:00 AM (view original):

is some 8'3" eighth grader with point guard skills who will grow to 7'3", 250 pounds

Help! Someone's gonna chop a full foot off this kid!

This :'D

I think my teams are going to be underestimated. None of them would be a contender by themselves in a normal league but with talent stretched thin all my teams are balanced and even throughout. Now they might be all evenly bad BUT the strategy I've been using for draft leagues, specifically DH52s draft league, has been producing pretty good teams that don't look that great according to typical sim logic. Now I might be completely wrong, but I have a good feeling. As long has you guys don't take all of the 3 players I sent out in proxy that is -.- which of course now you will

I think another factor is that basketball was not the top sport back in the 50s and 60s... either in popularity or salaries. Almost all of the top athletes were still choosing baseball, football, or even boxing. Basketball would be lucky to get third pick of the best athletes in the 50s or the 60s. I'll bet that Lebron would have chosen to play football in the 1960s....more prestige, more money, more popular sport. Elite athletes have always been around throughout history. Carl Lewis ran a 9.93 in 1988 to break the 100m world record. The 100m world record twenty years earlier in 1968 was 9.95. Only a 0.02 second improvement in 20 years. But from 1968 to 1988 the number of top athletes that started choosing professional basketball over other sports took the NBA from John Havlicek to James Worthy. (4" taller and 23 pounds heavier) Modern sport science aside, it's not like the elite athlete grew 4" over the last 50 years, or got as strong as Joe Louis, or got faster... they just starting choosing basketball. Wilt and Russell were top athletes who chose basketball where most other top athletes were choosing other sports or not being put on the path to play professional sports at all.

Wow. Was wondering when Simmons would go, way too early for me to consider punting three seasons on a draft pick but he certainly does give a lot of unique value during the two seasons you do get.

Posted by mptrey on 5/27/2020 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Wow. Was wondering when Simmons would go, way too early for me to consider punting three seasons on a draft pick but he certainly does give a lot of unique value during the two seasons you do get.

I would have loved for him to fall back to me (passing on a PG in the 4th was a huge mistake) but I'm not sure I really get the fit on jhsukow's team. With Nance and Marques already on board, there's a need for guys who can hit some threes, and taking a PG who hits literally no threes doesn't seem to make much sense (even for just two seasons). Nash ain't enough threes by himself.

Really love the Danny Green pick. He has so many good usable seasons that are basically carbon copies of themselves, so you can just plug and play. I kept wanting to pick him for myself but he made no sense with a few of the Kawhi seasons.

You all covered the difference in eras very well. Not going to rehash it all but I will say:

Think about playing basketball, on back to back nights, wearing Chuck Taylors. Those that watched The Last Dance saw what happened to MJ when he wore first generation Jordans. And they were a huge improvement over Chucks...I speak from experience.

Dribbling rules are so much different today. I won't be the get off my lawn guy. My players here it enough.

I will put forth that Cousy was an elite level passer with YouTube links to prove it. Though one could question the defense I suppose.

Posted by robusk on 5/27/2020 10:53:00 AM (view original):
Really love the Danny Green pick. He has so many good usable seasons that are basically carbon copies of themselves, so you can just plug and play. I kept wanting to pick him for myself but he made no sense with a few of the Kawhi seasons.

Which is funny because in most of those seasons they were teammates (often winning titles together)

regarding Cousy - probably true athleticism wise but when watching his ball handling do consider that almost every play in today's game would result in a turnover before the ball even crossed half court if it was called by 60s era refs - the hand has to be on top of the ball, one does not cup or carry

Posted by amerk1180 on 5/27/2020 2:13:00 AM (view original):
As those notable 20th century philosophers, Van Halen, once said, "Change, nothin' stays the same. Unchained, yeah you hit the ground running".

I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with basketball and the evolution of it, but I am just listening to it on my Pandora playlist lol.

As far as I go back, it is about 1974 and I became a Chicago Bulls fan at 8 years old because I loved those bright red uni's! Watching Chet Walker, Norm Van Lier, Jerry Sloan and Bob Love--GREAT and UNDERRATED TEAM! I remember when the NBA finals games would be shown on network TV on tape delay AFTER the local 11 pm (ET) news! The NBA was an afterthought back then. The ABA even worse. My dad used to tell me about the NBA in the 50's and 60's. It was white guys with games consisting of basic fundamentals, passing (like Gene Hackman preached in Hoosiers), and primarily the 2 hand set shot.

Then came WILT! He DOMINATED like none other in the NBA game before him largely eacause he was an ultimate physical specimen. If he had Jordan's motivation, killer instinct and leadership, he would have won at least a half dozen titles, but he couldn't beat the Celtics alone. Obviously, Magic and Bird saved the game, and then Jordan put it into the stratosphere. Somewhere out there is some 8'3" eighth grader with point guard skills who will grow to 7'3", 250 pounds and will dominate like none other. Maybe that kid is in 2nd grade. Maybe he hasn't been born yet, but he will come eventually and the NBA will soar to even greater heights.

Live in Chicago till I was 11 and those Bulls teams were my squad. All the guys you mentioned plus Tom Boerwinkle and Clifford Ray. Jerry Sloan and Bob Weiss handed me a basketball (ABA model) I won in a raffle at a clinic they conducted. They were very imposing to a 9 year old. Chet the Jet Walker was my guy and it was satisfying winning an ODL championship with him, way back in 06.

Everyone is citing the carrying rules regarding Cousy but what does that have to do with him literally staring at the dribbling hand/ball and being unable to regularly dribble with his off hand?

I will die on the Cousy is trash hill I guess. Russell and Wilt could definitely hang though, just in obviously reduced impact. Russell specifically is one of the greatest athletes to ever lace them up, even if I am conditioned to hate him based on the fact that Bill Simmons is one of the three most annoying personalities in sports media.

I'm with you robusk. I cringe watching old footage of Cousy staring at his dribbling hand. 50's basketball was not a pretty sight.

I don't doubt that the video you refer to exists. But the first video I pulled up shows him dribbling with both hands, skillfully, along with the passing. The athletic aspect I don't doubt. But compared to the athletes of his time he was elite. If he grew up in another time I would expect his athleticism would be comparable to that time, taking into account nutrition and weight training and general evolution of speed and strength.