OK, for the record, here's the trade I made with rammers.....

Traded D Lee Takamaa and future considerations (LW Cleon Saarenkivi) to the Roswell Aliens for D Barry Reynolds and a 2nd round draft pick in the Season 6 draft (C Lasse Berner) (Season 5)

Now corbs, we had this debate a couple of seasons ago when I originally thought about making Berner my FP. At the time, it was determined that this was an OK move, as essentially Berner's rights had been transferred when the trade was originally made, so that technically he was never the Aliens' property to begin with. So, this past offseason, I named Berner my new FP.

Hope this helps everyone.

Dan don't get defensive this has nothing to do with Berner.

I am not questioning the legality of the Berner (in fact I couldn't even remember what teams were involved it has nothing to do with my original posts about Draft and being able to make a traded player your FP)..I just remember seeing it recently, the only point is what does it really matter if a guy plays no games ,1 game , or 120 games for one team...it really shouldn't be restricted ..Why do we have this rule...if it is in fact as OKP says to keep teams from trading a vet in his sixth season then make it as long as he is traded before his sixth season he can become another teams FP

This is getting way off the original ideas..

1) I think the draft should go by the playoff results.



2) I don't believe your FP should have to play all six seasons with one team, why are restricted to only are own draft picks

Otherwise it seems to me that teams that finish near the top of the conference (bad draft spot) during the regular season get the short end of the stick.



3) I question whether the crosby bonus is 1) really necessary and 2) does it tempt a team that has not made the playoffs 2 years in a row think about missing the playoffs again to get this huge bonus player IN ADDTION to receiving TEAMWIDE bonuses every year you miss the playoffs.

...I am just trying to find a better way...maybe I should just shut up and forget the whole idea

I can tell you that after my team missed the playoffs 2 years running the SC bonus stuff came to mind. I set out that next season with the intent that everyone else here does, to win the Cup. I didn't make the playoffs that 3rd season and the only saving grace was knowing that I was going to be awarded the SC bonus.

I had a nice season this past season, but I got knocked out of the playoffs in the 2nd round. This season is the first that I'm using my SC bonus player so we'll see how he is. Who knows. maybe he'll be a bust.

The only thing I'm wondering, and I guess this question is mainly for Corbs as he's aired the idea, if it ends up being that we are allowed to use traded players as our FP why would you want to put a resriction on it?

Also, I don't like the idea of a hard cap. I think the current set up for player retirements is fine. I also think there should'nt be any penalties for warehousing either. That's just a small part of the game in this league. I think most GMs do it to develope younger players in the hopes that you can find the right balance with players to give yourself the best chance at winning.

As for the changing of the FP rule, I'm not opposed to it.

Oh, and what about upping the skill level of the draft pool players? Wouldn' t that increase the odds of teams that do well year after year getting quality players in the draft? Just spit balling..........

Hey Big D ..I don't want any restriction on the FP AT ALL I was saying IF YOU have to put some restriction on it then ...and I gave some options...But I am in favor of NO restrictions



And yes I hadn't thought of upping the skill level,but that might work

OK, my thoughts for today...

I don't think we need to change the restrictions on the FP. I think the original idea works. I DO agree with corbs that it ends up playing up the inequities of the draft system more. But I don't think changing the FP system is the proper response.

I do think the SC bonus may be too strong. Again, it goes back to the atmosphere of the draft. The one season I had the first pick, it was kind of stupid to realize that because it was a relatively weak draft, guys picking below me would be receiving a much "better" player than I would due to their SC bonus. Not very realistic! However, some of you might say that's just what I deserved for tanking my way into the number one spot on purpose ( JUST KIDDING!!!!!!)... and besides, I have had the conversation with okp before, we really haven't seen any one SC Bonus player who's dominated the league yet and grown into an all out superstar. The effect of the SC Bonus, on player skills AND on making a difference in the teams' abilities to grow, may be overstated. My experience here tells me that the abilities of the team to grow depends entirely on how the manager plays it.

Finally, you guys bring up the idea of upping the skill level of the draft... as someone who pays close attention to it, I would point out that yes, we've had a few weaker drafts in a row now. About five season ago we had a monster draft, and three seasons ago there was a pretty strong one as well. As I understand it the distribution of skills is random and the strength of a draft class is random. There must be another good class coming sometime. My cautionary thought would be that if we had too many good classes, we would again see a surge in defensive ratings across the league, which would probably lead to decreased scoring again.

Fascinating discussion. When I first saw damag's salary list I almost had a heart attack. "$125m?!? Where's it all going?"

My computer acces is going to be extremely spotty the next few days - I'm basically stealing a few minutes here (I'm moving - no more Yorba Linda!), but when I have a chance I'll organize some thoughts.

Wow, what a long and interesting thread this is becoming. I have a few thoughts on random topics througout:

1) If you want to stop warehousing, simple, set a 8 season cap for any player not a Goalie or FP.

2) I wouldn't be apposed to a hard cap because I believe that most people don't try to finish well in the regular season to hold a better pick and then dress in the playoffs.

3) I would like draft order to be based on final standings in the post-season. I have won the PT the last two years, but crappy playoff runs that I think are attributed partly to my 2nd point, but I've no objective evidence to really show.

4) The bonus system is pretty strong, but it all depends on the strength of the players in the draft. If the draft pools continue to be weaker, than the current set up is ok IMO.

Good stuff guys!

Me thinks the survey that I will be throwing together may have to include a few topics/issues.

1) The FP Limitations,
(Remove them, Alter them, or don't change them at all)

2) The Nonplayoff Team Bonuses ((i)non-playoff, (ii)bottom 6 and the controversial (iii) "SC" Bonus)
Leave them unchanged or remove 1, 2 or all 3 of the bonuses available to non-playoff teams
*- Warning! I still strongly feel that at least the (i) and (ii) bonuses are needed due to the similar level of talent in most drafts...... bad teams will likely continue to be bad...resulting in loss of interest in the MLD..... a big no no and something the commish does not want to see!! lol

3) Drafting Order
Leave it as it is, or base it on playoff results (i'm not exactly sure how this would work)..... Alternatively, we could always set up some form of draft lottery system like the NHL has switched to in recent years where teams can move up and down....... but again, I'm not exactly sure how that would work either....and of course there is the added question of "are the lottery results rigged?" lol.)

4) Draft Skill Level
Leave it as it is, raise it, or lower it.
(Higher skill levels may result in decreased offense across the league)
(Lower skill levels may result in more injuries)

5) Warehousing Players
(Leave it alone or set a rule limiting the use of warehousing to extend the career span of players)

6) Our Current 6 Season Forced Retirement Setup or A Hard Cap System
(Keep our current setup or switch to a Hard Cap system where player careers can continue as long as the GM/Team can afford to have them as part of their roster)

7) Sim engine
(Keep using the one we're using or switch to the newest one)

8) Change nothing........ and lets concentrate on playing! :)



Looks like we could have a hell of a survey on the way in the next week or so........... which isnt so bad cuz its been awhile since I've gathered everyone's feedback on various aspects of our league.....

The survey should be very interesting...

Even though I understand corbs’ frustrations over the FP rule, I’m happy with the fact that the FP is the real franchise guy - a local lad that stays at the franchise until he hangs up his skates, with a career extension as a well deserved bonus. I understand staying near the top of the standings for season after season will weaken the roster after a while, missing out on non-playoff bonuses (all the players on playoff teams will never get 3 skill points in each and every category even if they make the finals) and get stuck with a poor draft position. My team made the playoffs 7 strait seasons from the beginning, and desperately needed some rebuilding. But in my opinion the GM must plan ahead when it comes to the time the current FP must retire. Even with an average 17-year old, you should have a great skilled player at the end of 6 full seasons, and if no one is suitable for the FP spot, you could always do a trade or two for a higher draft pick to get that future FP you want.

IMO the MLD setup is rather cool as it is – but I won’t mind changing a few things – the first thing are (1) get rid of the SC-bonus, then also (2) put in a little more talent in the draft and finally – perhaps (if not too much work for okp & admin) – (3) have drafting order based on playoff results for the playoff bound teams.

(1) The SC-BONUS was put in to give the teams not making playoffs 3 consecutive seasons an extra boost, but you will get lots of extra player skills with the (i)non-playoff and (ii)bottom 6 bonuses anyways. Back in the early days we could not predict that every team needs rebuilding seasons sooner or later. And the problem with the SC-bonus, is that it was intended for teams that really suck and preventing their GMs to quit – and not teams laying low for a while doing some rebuilding seasons.

(2) We always have had Above average MLers in the draft… even though it would add a few more skilled rookie players on each team (more defensive rating could low the goals per game down the line) I would like us to add 30 random GOOD or perhaps even VERY GOOD prospects to the draft. This way all 24 teams should get at least one excellent rookie, and the non-playoff teams would still get the best ones picking early.

(3) Having the drafting order based on regular season standings should be a good thing – as the very best of the 16 playoff bound teams probably would finish near the top. But – even though we have no proof or science on the issue - we have another factor making the playoffs very different than the regular season – the warehousing. For me playing WIS for quite a while I’ve never found the playoff formula, is it mostly random luck or more to it than that – well having a bunch of 5 season megastars playing 19-games seasons only and then dressing for every playoff game is a bit odd isn’t it? Luck or no luck…the playoff teams should have a draft order based on what they do playing their very best available players in THE PLAYOFFS, and not calculate on finish just above the playoff line, with lots of stars down at the farm team.

I forgot to include something in my post right before Rammers(the rough copy of the survey). I editted to include it now(#7) but figured I would post what I added.

Added the survey question regarding the Sim Engine and whether or not we should switch

Wasn't getting defensive, just stating what happened.....geez, I have this same problem when I talk to my wife ;)

Jeez Dan we are becoming close ; )

Down boy ;)