Resurrection of Hoops Dynasty... Topic

I would bet anyone (you listening, seble?) a large GC that if they reinstated full reward points in one of the worlds, that world would see an immediate influx of new coaches, many of them vets coming back to DIII.

Why they wouldn't try this w. the current sorry state of DIII is beyond me.
11/2/2009 5:46 PM
This is going to be a weird post and I'm not 100% sure what I'm saying in it is correct. And I'm not even sure it belongs here. So feel free to tell me I'm full of it. And I'm not arguing that the status quo is good. It's not. Entire conferences full of Sim AI is a disaster. But I've got a feeling that were there to be a "resurrection" it would introduce some problems in the game that are somewhat hidden.

A lot has changed about the game since the D3 worlds were full:

  • Potential and FSS were introduced to the game. It's almost essential to use FSS. At the same time, it's very difficult at D3 to use FSS on 1/3 of the country and typically it is a lot less than that. If you have one open spot and are in a big state, you might only be able to scout your state. (And not be able to sign those in the far corners of the state after paying for FSS.)
  • You need high potential recruits to succeed. And not many high potential recruits want to play D3. It is not unusual to scout a smaller state and find zero quality D3 prospects in it.
  • The old "forum fact" about avoiding battles at D3 because there is always a comparable recruit available is now false. Even if there is another high potential recruit available that is similar to the one you want, there is an excellent chance you haven't scouted the state so you don't know he exists.
  • Pulldowns are much more common now. A coach that relies only on dropdowns is going to miss out on a good number of recruiting targets that are taken away by other schools. And to pulldown at D3 you really need to focus on local recruits because it is simply way too expensive to go beyond local.
  • After successfully pulling down a player, you not only risk losing him to another D3 school (always a possiblity) but because of the lack of high potential players may also lose the recruit to a low prestige human D2 school which almost never used to happen.
  • If you do choose the "safe" approach with dropdowns you now may find that in the second round of Sim AI recruiting you lose the player to a D2 school.


All those bullet points are really a long way of saying that recruiting is more expensive than ever, there are less good recruits worth having, and if you want somebody you better be prepared to battle.

Right now D3 is barren but in a full world I can see the $3,000 per open scholarship getting spent really, really fast. And a number of coaches striking out when they get into battles over the really good recruits and lose out. And not having any money over to target anybody else.

My current D3 school is in Maine. I can't compete with the human coached schools in New York or Pennsylvania so right now I recruit within 150 miles + flyover those states and recruit in states where there aren't really any human coaches. I've had ok success in Maine with the empty world but for a while now I've thought that if my world was full of humans, I'd probably be in a lot of trouble being isolated in Maine.

My last D3 school was in Pennsylvania and had very good prestige and I was surprised at the number of recruits I targeted that I had to fight over by schools that were farther away and had worse prestige. I won all those battles but it led me to conclude those coaches were battling me because there wasn't much else to settle for.

Like I said, I don't like the status quo at all. But I also have to say that I don't like the idea of the current recruiting setup matched with a world were all states are full of human coaches and competitive.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I think there are some problems with how recruiting works that aren't being exposed due to the lack of human coaches in a world. And it might be best to fix that.
11/2/2009 6:42 PM
I am going to rejoin Tark next season. I'm doubling my teams. Its the resurrection de moy!!! watch out!!!
11/2/2009 7:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by dalter on 11/02/2009I would bet anyone (you listening, seble?) a large GC that if they reinstated full reward points in one of the worlds, that world would see an immediate influx of new coaches, many of them vets coming back to DIII.Why they wouldn't try this w. the current sorry state of DIII is beyond me.

bad idea. how could you gauge if they were in fact "new" customers or coaches who "added" a team. the world would most definitely fill. But there's no way to tell if the reward points generated more business. WIS need to bite the bullet and just offer them in all worlds.

on a gambling note, i would stake $5k that HD revenue would increase if reward points were reinstated. More importantly: there would be a higher retention in new users and the "community" that HD once was, would make a small comeback. . . .
11/2/2009 7:40 PM
Yeah, I agree with all of that, Marko. I probably didn't state mine the best way, I was just making a point with the "one world" thing.

And kujay, an interesting post with a very valid overall point. But as you sort of alluded to, it's more a condemnation of the fact that DIII recruiting is simply not pared well with FSS currently, which I would totally agree with.
11/2/2009 7:46 PM
the idea that "many" HD users were consistently and regularly playing for free is ludicrous. unless 5-10 is many.

for the first time that i can recall im the only human at my d3 conference in Smith. good job wis.
11/2/2009 9:11 PM
The problem is that when fox Sports bought WIS, they moved from a quality model to a profit-centered model. That is really the root of all their problems. Poor owner retention, too many leagues, and a price structure that has not responded to the recession.

Given what I have seen since Fox Sports bought WIS, I have no hopes that they will stop squeezing this turnip rather than growing a garden.
11/2/2009 9:16 PM
HD is overpriced. That's the major problem, not reward points. The marginal cost of having an extra human team is essentially nothing in terms of server space, hardware, etc. The only cost is having customer support handle the extra ticket traffic. From a business perspective, I don't think HD is optimally priced to maximize their profit.

I've been playing for free for the past year and a half, and if I had to pay $10 a season, I'd be down to one, possibly zero teams. There's not enough depth to justify paying that much.
11/2/2009 9:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by vandydave on 11/02/2009the idea that "many" HD users were consistently and regularly playing for free is ludicrous. unless 5-10 is many.for the first time that i can recall im the only human at my d3 conference in Smith. good job wis.


hear, hear

i bet it wasn't even that. to play for free you must average an elite 8 appearance every season. i would say the number was more around 2-3

and, who cares!?! who would the coaches playing for free be? oldresorter? Rails? lostmyth?

YEA WIS, those are some dirty rat bastards there. those guys would only be playing to beat up on the little guys and rack up the reward points. GIVE ME A BREAK. . . .

any conference/world would benefit greatly from any one of those guys building a dynasty at a lower level. SH*T, how do you not see that.

where the hell are all these so called rats that would "prey" on the weaker teams?

i can tell you that i joined tark DIII because of oldresorter. he didnt know it. he didnt recruit me. He just had an awesome team. I wanted to beat them. You guys got an extra 8 season's worth of money out of me BECAUSE oldresorter had a dynasty at DIII, not despite it. . .
11/2/2009 10:12 PM
upon further review, reward points do add up. people do not play for free, but they do add up. ((sorry, very FEW people play for free))

per season HD gives out 62,200 reward points per NT. thats "technically" 31 free seasons given out per NT. But, thats spread over 64 teams, and never the same 64 teams.

if a world has only 60-70 coaches full reward points are not justified. i think they should explore an option of giving our reward points based upon how full a world is. 50% at all times, 75% if half full, and 100% if 2/3's full.
11/2/2009 10:20 PM
There's too many worlds. It's ridiculous.
11/2/2009 10:40 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By mrpolo09 on 11/02/2009upon further review, reward points do add up. people do not play for free, but they do add up. ((sorry, very FEW people play for free))

per season HD gives out 62,200 reward points per NT. thats "technically" 31 free seasons given out per NT. But, thats spread over 64 teams, and never the same 64 teams.

if a world has only 60-70 coaches full reward points are not justified. i think they should explore an option of giving our reward points based upon how full a world is. 50% at all times, 75% if half full, and 100% if 2/3's full


so that's ~31 seasons per division at full reward points is ~93 free seasons per world per season. I don't blame Wis for reeling reward points in.
11/3/2009 7:29 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By ermackey on 11/02/2009The problem is that when fox Sports bought WIS, they moved from a quality model to a profit-centered model. That is really the root of all their problems. Poor owner retention, too many leagues, and a price structure that has not responded to the recession.

Given what I have seen since Fox Sports bought WIS, I have no hopes that they will stop squeezing this turnip rather than growing a garden

Not sure exactly what you are meaning here, I don't think I would ever have associated the word quality with WIS.
11/3/2009 8:12 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By moy23 on 11/03/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By mrpolo09 on 11/02/2009
upon further review, reward points do add up. people do not play for free, but they do add up. ((sorry, very FEW people play for free))

per season HD gives out 62,200 reward points per NT. thats "technically" 31 free seasons given out per NT. But, thats spread over 64 teams, and never the same 64 teams.

if a world has only 60-70 coaches full reward points are not justified. i think they should explore an option of giving our reward points based upon how full a world is. 50% at all times, 75% if half full, and 100% if 2/3's full.



so that's ~31 seasons per division at full reward points is ~93 free seasons per world per season. I don't blame Wis for reeling reward points in.
But it is not really 93 seasons per world it is more like 1/5th of a season for most of them that are given out. On the top, yes it looks like they are handing out their product but in reality it is nowhere near it.
11/3/2009 8:14 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By mrpolo09 on 11/02/2009upon further review, reward points do add up. people do not play for free, but they do add up. ((sorry, very FEW people play for free))

per season HD gives out 62,200 reward points per NT. thats "technically" 31 free seasons given out per NT. But, thats spread over 64 teams, and never the same 64 teams.

if a world has only 60-70 coaches full reward points are not justified. i think they should explore an option of giving our reward points based upon how full a world is. 50% at all times, 75% if half full, and 100% if 2/3's full


polo - this idea would 'fix' the game. the idea would 'force' current members to recruit others to play. how about based on the conference, since it is double as easy to win rewards points from empty or near empty conferences at all levels. 50 % rewards pts for 5 or less, 75% for 6-8, 100% for 9 or more.

I sure can imagine guys like alblack, yourself, oldave, maybe bluespruce again, daalter, all of you guys would find people to fill out your conferences.

My guess is your idea would double the enrollment of d3.
11/3/2009 8:25 AM
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