Eliminate Prospect Budget Topic

Quote: Originally posted by patrickm885 on 1/11/2010zbrent: From the standings page click your franchise name that will pop open the franchise profile.

Got it, thanks. Thought perhaps I was missing something under the World Office.
1/11/2010 12:53 PM
Oh boy. I cannot WAIT for the first post in the forums after this update goes into effect:

"I just transferred $50M to prospects but it won't let me offer more than a $30M bonus. Why?"
1/11/2010 12:53 PM
tankers will still find a way to tank. This at least appears to mean I will finally have a shot at decent international guys...
1/11/2010 12:55 PM
It is only treating a symptom and doing nothing about the disease itself. If it is even a disease.

I've only seen the "tanker strategy" used in a couple of worlds in relation to the amount of teams that go, say, 40-122. Most teams with horrible records see one-shot owner after one-shot owner, who aren't tanking they just don't have a clue (Like myself if my first season in Gehrig, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, it took me a while to get it), and give up.

If a world has a minimum win threshold of, say, 58, and a 25 max cap on prospect, you can win 60-65 games for a few seasons in a row, keep your prospect at max for all those seasons, and still come out as well as if you'd lost 120+ a season all that time.

And what about the kyleconley's of HBD? I have probably seen that jackassery more than I've seen the dreaded tanker. Or reigny who, despite being a good guy, just kills teams, always 100+ losses but never drafts well, doesn't seem to play the IFA sweepstakes.

There are, IMHO, bigger fish to fry with HBD, than what's in prospect. *Sniff*There's my two and a half *sniff* cents.
1/11/2010 1:05 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By camden68 on 1/11/2010



It is only treating a symptom and doing nothing about the disease itself. ...

There are, IMHO, bigger fish to fry with HBD, than what's in prospect.

Such as?
1/11/2010 1:11 PM
I'm guessing this is the line of thinking:

It is very rare to find a team that is both "good" at the MLB level AND able to get over $30M in prospect budget ... it can happen, but it would be the exception rather than the rule

As such, the teams that are able to get over $30M in Prospect budget will be, with limited exception, teams that got there by "intentionally" avoiding MLB salaries ... the classic tanker play book

Therefore, the only owners that are able to land the top IFAs are the ones that sacrifice MLB wins for IFA budget ... and it seems this is not an outcome WiS intended

so they remove this strategy and assume the "cost" to those who could be both good and have a big prospect budget is far less than the "benefit" of leveling the playing field for IFAs

and while this may not be the "biggest" issue in tanking, it tangible and objective ... it doesn't eliminate tanking, but it does remove one of the "benefits" of the strategy with very little effect on the rest of us
1/11/2010 1:21 PM
Quote:
And what about the kyleconley's of HBD? I have probably seen that jackassery more than I've seen the dreaded tanker. Or reigny who, despite being a good guy, just kills teams, always 100+ losses but never drafts well, doesn't seem to play the IFA sweepstakes.


Or people who've played one unsuccessful season of HBD and/or is obviously an alias, and who troll the forums.

Actually I don't think there's many issues with the game. I even like you.

I kind of like the way things are. Good world's police themselves and shouldn't need admin to step in or cause wholesale changes, that affect worlds that don't have 80 HR guys. I accept that this is a computer simulation and take the whole "reality" thing with a grain of salt. Unless there are tiny men that I'm really paying millions to inside my computer actually playing the games, I'm not going to take it so seriously.

1/11/2010 1:26 PM
Instead of making these changes which take out a strategy that may help a competitive team get a young stud they may not otherwise get (good teams dont get top draft picks) why not allow the commissioners to police the problem? Isn't there a way to get rid of problem owners before they become a big problem to the entire world? I mean these are private worlds and they have there own set or requirements for entry so can teams not be banned from worlds for not meeting requirements as set out by the league commissioner in advance?

Also, why are we asking admin to make changes to the way the leagues are run system wide when not every world has a problem (or at least a problem big enough to complain about to this degree)?
1/11/2010 1:39 PM
I like the change. What it means is that, when in rebuild mode, there is no advantage to cutting payroll budget below a certain point, other than tanking for draft picks. As a consequence, rebuilders, once they've cut the dead-weight, will pobably move back into the FA market a little quicker. We're a little closer to having a payroll floor.



This won't do anything about people who break teams for fun, or are just unable to win games, or who are obsessed with #1 draft picks. But I'm not sure anything will stop these actual "tankers" except being in a private world that keeps them out. What this change will do is modify the incentive structure on honest rebuilding projects to keep payroll a bit higher and do the turnaround a bit faster.



Another effect it will have which no one seems to be talking about, but which seems to me to be even more important, is to bring down the amount of total IFA dollars, and therefore overall prices. What this will do is bring some competitive teams, who have been shunning the IFA process because of a few teams making huge transfers, back into the IFA market, or encourage teams that have been investing smaller amounts in IFA to invest a bit more. It will be much easier for mid-level payroll teams to play for top IFAs.



Tiebreakers won't be much of an issue after the draft. Before the draft, it's a different story: $24 mil max bid. But after picks are signed, someone's going to have more available. Will this, in fact, be an ANTI-tanking incentive? The #7 pick costs less than the #1 pick. Will this cause over-slot draftees to drop further down in the draft? Will teams stop signing low draft picks with Prospect money, and instead sign more MiL FAs with Payroll money, to get a slight advantage on post-draft IFA bidding? There's going to be a lot going on here.



I think an additional change to go along with this would be great: raise the maximum budget amount for prospects to $30 mil. Think about it: all this would do is put an extra $10 mil in the payroll of the least competitive teams. That would be good for the competitive balance overall, I think. Leave the penalty for post-budget transfers as-is. I'd love to hear opinions on this.



Unintended consequence warning: Beware tanking owners trying to use their extra cash, which can no longer be moved to prospect budget, to buy prospects, in some form or another, through trades.
1/11/2010 1:43 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By gjello10 on 1/11/2010Unintended consequence warning: Beware tanking owners trying to use their extra cash, which can no longer be moved to prospect budget, to buy prospects, in some form or another, through trades
I thought about mentioning that, or a tanker front-loading contracts then trading for prospects ... then realized that the big tankers are far too lazy to put in that much effort
1/11/2010 1:56 PM
Tankers tank. Boot them out or don't let them your world. That's the best way to be rid of them.

Plus you get the added bonus of a hissy fit when you deny them entrance into your world because they once won 50 games.
1/11/2010 1:58 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By schedule1 on 1/11/2010this will make the draft more important, though, won't it? which will... encourage tankers
A fair point, which seems to have gone largely ignored. Now, instead of spending almost nothing on payroll, tankers can use the extra payroll they don't transfer to sign horrible players to horrible contracts, insuring good draft position but leaving the next owner in a lurch when they inevitably bail because no one wants them in the World.

Example: Tankapottamous decides he's not competing for four seasons, just building his minors. Trades away all of his ML contracts in Season 1, then signs 38 year old slugs to 3 year deals in Season 2 with the payroll he couldn't transfer. That way his team gets progressively worse until the point he's ready to compete.

Not that I'm arguing against a prospect budget cap in principal - $30 million seems more than fair - but this has the potential to make Worlds worse off than they were before.
1/11/2010 2:08 PM
With the absolute cap, wouldn't tanking be counterproductive for teams wishing to sign the best IFA? The #1 pick costs at least 4 M, and then each subsequent pick costs less, so the team with the #1 pick will have a hard time outbidding those below that team for the best IFA. I imagine this was part of admin's thinking...
1/11/2010 2:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by austinfan1 on 1/11/2010With the absolute cap, wouldn't tanking be counterproductive for teams wishing to sign the best IFA? The #1 pick costs at least 4 M, and then each subsequent pick costs less, so the team with the #1 pick will have a hard time outbidding those below that team for the best IFA. I imagine this was part of admin's thinking...

It's also counterproductive to completely tank because the first tie-breaker is "Playoff contention (based on last seasons winning %)". So, tankers may have to straddle the line of losing enough to get a high draft pick, but winning enough to be able to win the tie-breaker over any other tankers for the best Int'l guy.
1/11/2010 2:12 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By patrickm885 on 1/11/2010

We also talked about getting rid of the budget transfer page altogether, is that something that you would rather see?




YES!
1/11/2010 2:13 PM
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Eliminate Prospect Budget Topic

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