Better DITR’s!!! Topic

schuyler101
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Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2010Damn, we go thru this every week.Seems everyone wants some late rounders to be BL players.  IN THE NAME OF REALISM.   Which is fine.  But, if you want that, you also should want early round flops to even it out.  IN THE NAME OF REALISM!!!  But no one in their right mind wants to sit down, rank the players for a couple of hours and end up with three turds as their first three picks while hoping some random 16th rounder becomes a star.Once that happens, there's no reason to bother ranking players for the draft.   It's just random bullshit.  And, if you want to play a game with random results, try roulette.

yeah we do go through this every week...and every week you set up this straw man argument

i do want the early round flops

any rational person who wants more late round success stories wants more first round busts...

it wouldn't be like roulette if over time those with better scouting budgets and who were better prepared did better than those who did less...you know like in real life...

the nature of the draft in real life is much more interesting than HBD

ps i don't play roulette, over time the results are not random, you WILL lose to the house if you play enough...
2/26/2010 9:24 AM
jjboogie
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i would be up for something where you could "see" the DITR more often the more you spent in scouting - and if they were better as well. perhaps just something denoting on their card they were a DITR and/or some inkling of how good they could get. so you could push these guys up your board and occasionally one of these guys would be really solid

so if you spent more on scouting you could see more of the DITRs in advance of the draft and get some late round steals and if you didn't spend any/much you would not see many of them in the 1st place to even have on your board.

2/26/2010 9:28 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By schuyler101 on 2/26/2010
Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2010
Damn, we go thru this every week.

Seems everyone wants some late rounders to be BL players. IN THE NAME OF REALISM. Which is fine. But, if you want that, you also should want early round flops to even it out. IN THE NAME OF REALISM!!! But no one in their right mind wants to sit down, rank the players for a couple of hours and end up with three turds as their first three picks while hoping some random 16th rounder becomes a star.

Once that happens, there's no reason to bother ranking players for the draft. It's just random bullshit. And, if you want to play a game with random results, try roulette.


any rational person who wants more late round success stories wants more first round busts...



If only this were true. People want better players. They don't want to spend time setting up a draft board only to have their first rounders to not pan out. I'm not sure rational people want that. I'm not sure irrational people want that.

Look at how many threads are started with "Why is this guy underperforming?" Maybe we should just tell them he's a bust, get rid of him now as he'll never be worth anything, that's just the way it goes.
2/26/2010 9:38 AM
jimmystick
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As mentioned, I'd like to keep scouting the way it is, but if I had to change it, here's how I'd do it, and I think for the most part everybody would pretty much be satisfied.

Get rid of current DiTRs completely.

Add a tweak to the amatuer draft where approximately 30 players are labeled... for lack of a better word... Diamonds. A Diamond will be clearly labeled somehow on his player card. It's obvious that everybody knows he's a Diamond. The Diamonds will have very high ceilings, all with projected OVRs at 85 or higher.

The catch is that of the 30 Diamonds, only 10 will actually realize their full potential, 10 will come moderately close, and 10 will flat out bust. There's no way to actually tell what your Diamond will do until it actually happens. It happens randomly, anywhere between a week after the Diamond signs his contract, to 3 seasons later, and you're notified in your inbox which direction your Diamond went, at which point, the Diamond label dissapears from his card and he looks like a regular player.

What this accomplishes: If you don't like having first round busts you avoid the Diamonds and take the sure fire players. The teams who want to risk more will draft the Diamonds in the first and second rounds. There will be plenty of first and second round busts with these Diamonds, and there will be later round All Stars because some Diamonds will slip into later rounds, not to mention regular players could slip into later rounds if a lot of teams are drafting Diamonds early. Add in some IFA Diamonds as well.

I think it keeps both sides happy. If you don't like the idea of Diamonds then just don't draft, sign, or trade for them. It could make for some interesting trades too. Would you trade a 78 OVR starting pitcher for a projected 90 OVR pitcher if there was only a 33% chance he'll reach his projections?
2/26/2010 9:42 AM
deathinahole
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Every owner gets assigned a "jackass" rating from 0 to 10.

If you are a 10 jackass, no matter who you draft in the first round, he craps the bed. Twice. Bleach won't get it out.

If you are a 0, and also donated to help Rwandan refugees, a 24th round becomes a HOFer.

2/26/2010 9:56 AM
deathinahole
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Sorry mitchrapp.
2/26/2010 9:56 AM
MikeT23
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While that has merit, it won't produce the "late round stars" that people want.

You'll have two factions. One will draft the Diamonds. The other will continue as is and sprinkle the Diamonds in. In reality, the "best" strategy would be to rank the best 15-20 players at the top, all the Diamonds and then the rest of the players with BL potential. Either way, all the Diamonds would be gone by the end of the 3rd round.
2/26/2010 9:57 AM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/26/2010
I think it would a hilarious to see the whining if WifS overhauled the entire amatuer evaluation process. No more numbers. Just names and scouting reports(college, high school and IFA).

Robert Fireman-MIF/CF
Good contact hitter. Excellent gap power that may develop into home run power. Poor eye. Outstanding glove but lacks range and arm. Very slow.

That's pretty much what you get with the scouting reports for recruits in GD:

I think his growth potential is pretty average - nothing special.
This kid has the attitude we're looking for, Coach.
Very good tackler.
He has a quick first step at the snap.

It would be an interesting twist, but very time consuming. Also, the reports would need to vary depending on your scouting budget.

I agree, though. The whining would be . . . spectacular.
2/26/2010 10:00 AM
MikeT23
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Of course. The more you spend, the more accurate they'd be. And, quite frankly, they'd produce exactly what people claim to want. However, the owner with 10 hours(and the desire) to spend would have a big advantage over the guy with 45 minutes.
2/26/2010 10:08 AM
tecwrg
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Would you still see current ratings, to provide a baseline? Again, like GD does.

Edit: NVM: I see now that you say "no numbers". Maybe current numbers might be nice.
2/26/2010 10:16 AM
MikeT23
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Since we wouldn't have HS, College or International stats to evaluate, I'd say "yes".
2/26/2010 10:18 AM
jimmystick
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Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2010While that has merit, it won't produce the "late round stars" that people want.You'll have two factions.  One will draft the Diamonds.  The other will continue as is and sprinkle the Diamonds in.   In reality, the "best" strategy would be to rank the best 15-20 players at the top, all the Diamonds and then the rest of the players with BL potential. Either way, all the Diamonds would be gone by the end of the 3rd round.
No, you won't have Diamonds last until the 17th round. but even an occassional 3rd or 4th round perrennial All Star would be enough to keep it interesting.

The thing I like MOST about my idea is that if you don't like it, you just avoid the Diamonds and it stays the same. It's impossible to overhaul scouting and keep everybody happy. I think this is as about as close as you can come.
2/26/2010 10:18 AM
MikeT23
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Of course, it would be funnier as the whining would be greatly increased, if we didn't.
2/26/2010 10:19 AM
MikeT23
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JS, my point is that people seem to want a 15th rounder to make the A/S team. Your suggestion does nothing but add 10 players to the top of the draft who'll be studs. Now, if they weren't marked in any manner, they could fall to deep in the draft and suddenly show with a high upside once they're signed.

In fact, that would kill two birds with one stone. Late round picks could be worth something. And owners would sign their late picks and solve the self-inflicted problem of minor league position player shortages.
2/26/2010 10:34 AM
gjello10
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If people want to keep things mostly the same, but add a bit more realism, one way to go would be like this: have 3 or 4 players carrying 1st round grades be secretly marked as "busts", and 3-5 guys carrying late round grades secretly marked as "gems". On the first day of the following season, the owners of those 6-9 players get a message in their inbox saying that the player's projections have changed. Now we've got at least a few highly drafted busts (decreases the incentive to tank), and a couple of 17th round major leaguers (as Mike said, incentive to put care into the drafting and signing of lower rounders). Yet mostly whoever spends the most time/budget on the draft will get players out of it, as it is now.
2/26/2010 10:48 AM
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