Quote: Originally posted by doomey on 3/02/2010And I'd encourage you to stick to the point. You didn't use a period or capitalize I'd, so what.furry, it is hard for me to discuss this issue with you since you admittedly don't know firsthand about D1. You say where rewards are earned is in the NT. If you are going to tell me you think you have the same number of veteran/experienced coaches in the lower divisions to challenge for those spots, I'd argue that. If you think a D1 pulling your 156th rated guy from you equates to trying to vie for the top guy at a position, I'll argue that as well. FSS is an exact example of a feature that isn't fully utilized in the lower divisions that makes D1 more difficult since everyone is working on the same info now with potential.

uh, fss makes div III harder, not div I. FSS = luck in div III whereas in div I you can scout multiple states and not notice it in the wad of cash everyone gets.

Quote: Originally Posted By furry_nipps on 3/02/2010

Quote: Originally posted by abitaamber on 3/02/2010 Doomey, if they aren't the same game, with the same rewards...then I assume you would have no problem if they didn't cost the same to play?

amen

I look at this as a progressive game, you start at one position and progress to the next. You pay the fee to enter, what you do with that entry fee is entirely up to you. You want to reap the big rewards you progress. If a real D3 coach likes his job he'll stay, but he won't make the big money. Sorry if I'm not the guy who thinks that playing at the lower divisions is an end result. I'm not in that camp. I can respect those that do and there are good coaches there, but I don't see that as the culminatation of a progressive game.

Quote: Originally Posted By furry_nipps on 3/02/2010

Quote: Originally posted by doomey on 3/02/2010
And I'd encourage you to stick to the point. You didn't use a period or capitalize I'd, so what.

furry, it is hard for me to discuss this issue with you since you admittedly don't know firsthand about D1. You say where rewards are earned is in the NT. If you are going to tell me you think you have the same number of veteran/experienced coaches in the lower divisions to challenge for those spots, I'd argue that. If you think a D1 pulling your 156th rated guy from you equates to trying to vie for the top guy at a position, I'll argue that as well. FSS is an exact example of a feature that isn't fully utilized in the lower divisions that makes D1 more difficult since everyone is working on the same info now with potential.

uh, fss makes div III harder, not div I. FSS = luck in div III whereas in div I you can scout multiple states and not notice it in the wad of cash everyone gets.

I cannot disagree more. Again, since you haven't done it, you don't know. There are budgetary constraints at D1 as well and to think that people just FSS willy-nilly because they have more cash is absurd. D1 has more cash because it takes more to sign. FSS makes finding and stealing a diamond in the rough much more difficult. You say it's luck in D3, but that same player you "lucked" into will have every decent D1 coach in the area interested, making it potentially harder and more expensive to sign them.

Additionally, D3 recruiting is generally local, with the smaller pool of players in D3 finding a target is generally easier than in BCS D1 school, where you may not be able to stay local to be competitive.

Again, I'm fine with disagreeing on the rewards, but I just don't see the logic in saying that all divisions are equal in the challenges they offer. Anyone who has been at each level knows the differances are significant.

I don't want to give the impression that I think D3 is a cakewalk, I'm just saying that in terms of recruiting (which we all agree is the lion's share of good coaching) D1 is much more of a minefield and has more variability that makes it more difficult in general. There is a reason that HD D3 is primarily focused in the more populated states. In reality there are 44 D3 conferences, but because recruiting pools in smaller states would be nothing less than tragic in some years, they've focused it on the more populated areas to allow D3 schools to have a decent local pool. When you get to D1 you often have to cast a wider net which brings in factors that aren't as viable in D3.

I've recruited in div III, II and I sense FSS has came in. When it comes just to FSS div III is the toughest, and its not even close. Yeah, the challenge of div I recruiting overall is tough having to constantly battle, but its not due to FSS. In fact, you don't even need to use FSS in div I to be successful. Div III needs it to much, and doesn't have the funds to do it. When you try to pull someone down and fail, or battle you can't just find someone else like you can in div I. You will end up with walk ons because you can't just sign someone cheap by you. Anyone undecided is going to be crap.



Its all opinion based for everyone, but without question div III has been the toughest/most frustrating with FSS. Div II has been the easiest, and div I has been right in the middle just because I don't think it has changed all that much.

Quote: Originally Posted By furry_nipps on 3/02/2010
I've recruited in div III, II and I sense FSS has came in. When it comes just to FSS div III is the toughest, and its not even close. Yeah, the challenge of div I recruiting overall is tough having to constantly battle, but its not due to FSS. In fact, you don't even need to use FSS in div I to be successful. Div III needs it to much, and doesn't have the funds to do it. When you try to pull someone down and fail, or battle you can't just find someone else like you can in div I. You will end up with walk ons because you can't just sign someone cheap by you. Anyone undecided is going to be crap.



Its all opinion based for everyone, but without question div III has been the toughest/most frustrating with FSS. Div II has been the easiest, and div I has been right in the middle just because I don't think it has changed all that much.

What exactly was your D1 experience that you could possibly come to that conclusion? That is pure supposition on your part as you stated in other threads that you have not built a contender in D1 as yet, preferring to stay at the other divisions. This is much like your comment that you could easily win a D1 title with an also-ran. You are making suppositions not based upon any experience to back them up. I'd really like to hear from successful coaches in D1 who DON'T use FSS. That I'd be impressed with.

And for the record, D3 with FSS is really not much differant than D3 without it, so I don't think it makes it harder. It's just a tempting fruit now that a few coachs can use. Otherwise you still have the same tools you had prior to it, scouting reports just became a more important tool.

Back to the change at hand. I still don't see the reasoning for the mix of cash and rewards points. Even with gift certs, people are going to have dead rewards points sitting around until they go to their next NC, whenever that may be. Even then, they aren't even numbered points, so you can't take your 5800 points and use them all up. You can spend 5250 on a GC 550 points of a reward you can't use...

Because they want spending reward points on outside vendors to be more difficult, obviously. Before it was in the form of having reduced rewards at lower divisions. In this, its reduced by having to go farther in the tournament to get the points that can give you 'outside vendor' gifts.

if d3 is so easy, come on down and take us on. I've got teams at all 3 levels, and consider them all close to equally tough. different challenges, for sure, but i enjoy them all and have fun at each level.

if i had to say, i think i'd say d2 is the easiest, actually.

Quote: Originally Posted By wronoj on 3/02/2010if d3 is so easy, come on down and take us on. I've got teams at all 3 levels, and consider them all close to equally tough. different challenges, for sure, but i enjoy them all and have fun at each level.

if i had to say, i think i'd say d2 is the easiest, actually.

I agree completely.

DIII FSS is harder because you have to very carefully chose WHERE you CAN afford to scout rather than just shotgun scouting.

I honestly believe D3 would be the toughest level if it were full. It's extremely difficult to find a player with solid ratings across the board.

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A. We will be busy trying to get some recruits at the d3 level this year i need 6 recruits i think you need 5 correct.

Doomey, I still don't get why you would want to crusade against this. It's good for your fellow coaches and good for the health of DII/DIII, which has been ailling terribly for awhile.

I respect your feeling that this is a progressive game, etc. although that has nothing to do with WIS's rationale. But mostly, how about not crusading against something that helps everyone and is great for the troubled lower divisions? Just a smidgen of big-picture thinking here would behoove you.

Coaches have been load-and-clear on this for quite some time, and I'm extremely happy that we now have a regime in place that will listen. I give them a lot of credit for making this move, and would should be thankful.