OT: Tourny Expansion 2011 Topic

Iguana1
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Quote: Originally Posted By schroedess26 on 3/23/2010Oh ya I did watch Marquette in 2003 as well when D-Wade was on the team, the year "We Are Marquette" chant came about
fyi.. the "We Are, Marquette" chant goes back over 40 years. USC did their version of the cheer back in the 60's (when OJ was running wild), and Penn State with the "We Are Penn State" possibly pre-dating both.
3/23/2010 9:53 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By schroedess26 on 3/23/2010
So cut the field to down to 16 teams or possibly 32 with no auto-bids and let them go at it. If all you want it a champion the NCAA does not have that right now. Only 10 teams really have a shot each year.

So why have 64/65 teams in the tourney then? Can you give me an explanation? How many teams do you think should be in the tournament
Ok, you're being ridiculous now. 64 teams works and chewchad or whoever posted in reply to you said "LEAVE IT ALONE" thus he wants 64 teams. The bottom line is, expanding to 96 teams is nothing more than a money grab for the NCAA because ironically enough their contract with CBS is either up this year or next and they want the networks to splooge all over the tournament, regardless of whether the fans approve of the scenario or not. Like I said, the Jay Wright comments were completely off base.
3/23/2010 11:26 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By metsmax on 3/23/2010
96 is too much - 68 will work fine - see thread on 68

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/threads.asp?ForumID=30&TopicID=409353&PagePosition=3

Lots of discussion of going to 96 teams - basically tomake more money with another round of games to televise. But, the argument is well made that this would put a lot of teams into the Dance that truly did not excel by any measure.

Still, is the current 65 teams the right answer?

No - the better answer is a 68 team tournament and here is how it works

Seed the at large and automatic bids, but the lowest AT LARGE slot in each gets two teams - it would be slots 12A and 12B or 13A and 13B however it works out

Get rid of the annoying playin game between the bottom two automatics - and instead we have four games on Tuesday - Play In Tuesday.....or Last Chance Tuesday....or whatever. The teams that would otherwise be the last four in and the last four out play each other to decide who gets in - a competitive solution.

Matchups might be something like

Minn v Miss State

Utah State v Illinois

Florida v Va Tech

Wake v Seton Hall

An afternoon and evening of great tv, but just the 8 teams at the margin.

68 is the answer
Bingo...I'd go as many as 72, and I think that's more than plenty. Just looking at it from a context standpoint...how many teams really get screwed out of the tournament? I think mets' number is right...4...I think 8 works too, a little more out of the box, but are there really 32 teams out there that folks think they got screwed out of the tourney? That's just the thing here, people don't care about logic or competition, all they care about is the friggin greenback...again its sad that everyone is a money grubbing whore nowadays.
3/23/2010 11:29 AM
metsmax
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they could get just about as much $$$ by adding four or eight

add four teams and you get a full added day of televised gamed - Tuesday afternoon session and evening session - great tv between last four in and first four out....would inevitably include some big name big conference schools and could include some mid or low majors teams
3/23/2010 12:15 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By metsmax on 3/23/2010
they could get just about as much $$$ by adding four or eight

add four teams and you get a full added day of televised gamed - Tuesday afternoon session and evening session - great tv between last four in and first four out....would inevitably include some big name big conference schools and could include some mid or low majors teams

Maybe even more. In all honesty these games that you have proposed would be good games, unlike a 9 v 18 (idk what the seeding would look like).

And colonels Yes, I have agreed with that for a long time. i think the 68 is good but wouldn't be opposed to 72 either, I assume your thought is along the lines of the 68? The last 8 "At-Large" seeds would be given to the winners of those games? I think that would bring in a good amoung of money if it was done right.

And I agree we always get down to what 3-8 teams will get the last 3-6 spots and after that there is a good drop off in a teams 'ability' to make a 'solid case' for the tourny. Unless our goal is to just let anyone and everyone in, then yeah sure 96 'works' for that.
3/23/2010 12:37 PM
schroedess26
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You can not do 12A vs 12B and 13A v 13B as they are not always the last 4 teams in. What happens when one of the last at large teams like this year is a #10 seed?

I have stated this a few times but no one seems to realize that the NCAA tournament rankings are free flowing and they try to get the best geographical set-up as well as rankings for the tournament. Yes Cornell could be a 10/9 seed vacating the #12 seed this year, but how is it fair for them to get pushed out of their region cause of a play-in game. You want to be "Fair" to the auto-bids well this would not be fair to them then.

If you insist on not just doing a 15A v 15B and 16A v 16B like most people would rather see eliminating these crappy teams earlier, then you need to have the no seedings come out have the last 8 teams do play-in games on Monday and then release the tournament schedule that night so the committe can still balance the bracket.
3/23/2010 1:42 PM
schroedess26
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This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
3/23/2010 1:45 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By schroedess26 on 3/23/2010You can not do 12A vs 12B and 13A v 13B as they are not always the last 4 teams in. What happens when one of the last at large teams like this year is a #10 seed? Then they play for a #10 seed. Thought that was made pretty obvious.

I have stated this a few times but no one seems to realize that the NCAA tournament rankings are free flowing and they try to get the best geographical set-up as well as rankings for the tournament. Yes Cornell could be a 10/9 seed vacating the #12 seed this year, but how is it fair for them to get pushed out of their region cause of a play-in game. You want to be "Fair" to the auto-bids well this would not be fair to them then.

If you insist on not just doing a 15A v 15B and 16A v 16B like most people would rather see eliminating these crappy teams earlier, then you need to have the no seedings come out have the last 8 teams do play-in games on Monday and then release the tournament schedule that night so the committe can still balance the bracket
3/23/2010 2:06 PM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By schroedess26 on 3/23/2010You can not do 12A vs 12B and 13A v 13B as they are not always the last 4 teams in. What happens when one of the last at large teams like this year is a #10 seed? However they're seeded, I think the point is to take the last 4 at large teams in and the first 4 at large teams out and pit them against each other, regardless of the seed essentially.

I have stated this a few times but no one seems to realize that the NCAA tournament rankings are free flowing and they try to get the best geographical set-up as well as rankings for the tournament. Yes Cornell could be a 10/9 seed vacating the #12 seed this year, but how is it fair for them to get pushed out of their region cause of a play-in game. You want to be "Fair" to the auto-bids well this would not be fair to them then. This is most fair to auto bids because they've already earned their way into the tournament (rightly or wrongly) thus they shouldn't be the ones having to "play in" to the tournament and that's why I think mets' idea is so brilliant.

If you insist on not just doing a 15A v 15B and 16A v 16B like most people would rather see eliminating these crappy teams earlier, then you need to have the no seedings come out have the last 8 teams do play-in games on Monday and then release the tournament schedule that night so the committe can still balance the bracket. But getting back to mets' point, nobody's going to care about AR-Pine Bluff v. Winthrop as much as they may have a Minnesota v. Mississippi State. I think the idea works on many levels.
3/23/2010 2:12 PM
zhawks
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All good points by colonels, the biggest being nobody cares about the PiG currently.
3/23/2010 2:23 PM
diablo11
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I say let 148 RPI teams in
3/23/2010 3:39 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By diablo11 on 3/23/2010I say let 148 RPI teams i
I do not.
3/23/2010 3:53 PM
diablo11
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 3/23/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By diablo11 on 3/23/2010
I say let 148 RPI teams in
I do not
You should since that was your RPI last season
3/23/2010 4:24 PM
metsmax
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you put the tuesday game in whichever slot is the last at large slot in a certain region - the lowest at large - whether or not there are higher automatic bids in that region

SO, if the lowest in the East is a 12, in the South a 12, in the West a 12 and in the Midwest a 13, then the 4 Put op or Shut up Tuesday games are for those slots

I think it will be rare - maybe impossible - for there to be more of a spread of those games than 12's and 13's or 13's and 14s ...the way the S curve works....
3/23/2010 4:32 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By diablo11 on 3/23/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 3/23/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By diablo11 on 3/23/2010
I say let 148 RPI teams in
I do not.
You should since that was your RPI last seaso
Why should I think that ? We didn't deserve to make the dance, we shouldn't have been in and we weren't. What's wrong with that?
3/23/2010 4:36 PM
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