Diamonds in the rough Topic

schuyler101
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Posted by strikeout26 on 6/21/2010 10:20:00 PM (view original):
When I say that I wasnt impressed, I mean that I did not feel he was the best player in that draft. He was still a very solid player, with very good tools.
thats what i kind of took from your post...not that you thought he was a bum or anything, just that you were surprised that he was the top pick in the draft
6/22/2010 12:15 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by apollo7 on 6/22/2010 12:11:00 PM (view original):
I think in all this my point was lost entirely.  My point was that it should be made into a MORE FUN AND USEFUL part of the game, that's all.   It is a very simple and straightforward point.  Who cares if it is something for nothing if everyone gets equal benefit from it.  Isn't this game supposed to be fun?
The game is supposed to be challenging.  The "fun" part should be overcoming the challenge and succeeding, ideally against 31 other owners who are likewise trying to succeed.

By changing DITR such that everybody gets the benefit of "something for nothing", you're dumbing down the game.  The challenge is lessened if everybody gets major league potential quality players for just showing up.
6/22/2010 12:25 PM
apollo7
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I understand your point but I disagree that it would dumb down the game to any real measurable effect.  My suggestion mearly makes it so DITR's have maybe 50/50 chance of contributing at the major league level at some point, depending on extent of increases, makeup, and how they are developed.  As you well know even if you have a player with ML quality projections it still takes makeup and proper development to get them there...ie:  coaching skill.  I'm not saying that everyone should be given a guaranteed ML player every year...that's is taking my arguement to the extreme.  I am saying that you could give everyone a player each year that, with proper development, has a chance (note:  a chance) at making an ML team in some capacity.  Again, not saying that the DITR process should make all-stars, just a chance, with proper coaching, of making some players that contribute.  This would not, in any way that I see, unbalance the game, or dumb down the game, it would just add another way, on top of free agents, rule 5, trades, draft, of filling your ML roster. 

This would be the equivalent of an additional 4th round pick maybe...definitely not game breaking, unbalancing, or dumbing down.   Your arguments against are taking everything to the extreme level.
6/22/2010 1:52 PM (edited)
toddcommish
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OK, how about this?  Rather than having EVERY TEAM get 1-4 DITR every year, many of whom still will never reach the Majors...

Make 2-3 legitimate DITR in every draft pool (i.e. seemingly AA potential tops who suddenly blossom into major leaguers) and come up with 10-15 "potentials" (i.e. seemingly AA potential tops who stay there) making a list of around 15-20.

Have our "scouts" give us a list of POTENTIAL "diamonds" based on the scouting budgets (say, $40M might see 10, $20M sees 5, $0 sees 0). 

That way, it becomes a prioritization/drafting decision.  Should you bump up a "potential" knowing that there is only a 15-20% chance he might blossom, or do you take a relatively sure bench player/reliever in the second or third round? 

This way, the DITR are LEGIT major league prospects, only 2-3 would be known (and even then, a couple of years into their development... some might even be traded), and it adds a strategic element to drafting in the early/mid rounds.
6/22/2010 1:46 PM
MikeT23
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Already been discussed.   You draft the sure things first, the "potentials" second and the borderlines third.
 
Still no Piazza in round 62(if such a thing existed in HBD).   You get your potential DITR in round 2 or 3.  
6/22/2010 1:50 PM
deathinahole
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Funny how no one who is all for this doesn't think having the same random chance of having a legit propect ruined is a great idea.
Why? Because it's not something for nothing.

It's a STRATEGY game.

Other sites have virtual roulette and slots. Feel free to take your money there.
6/22/2010 1:58 PM
deathinahole
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Seriously, 3 people keep hammering away that it's this great idea and everyone else takes dumps on it.
The majority doesn't want it. Drop it.
6/22/2010 2:01 PM
apollo7
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Okay, for the sake of argument, if everyone got two 4th round picks (which is the equivalent of what I am proposing) each year, instead of one, suddenly the game is now completely random and there is no strategy involved?  Wait a second, which one of those two picks is something for nothing and which one isn't?   Or is it maybe that in the draft, each and every pick is essentially something for nothing.  So, if that's the case, there is no strategy in this game.  Oh but wait, there is strategy because once you have those players you have to actually use strategy and skill to "coach" them and "develop' them.  No?  But, oh, there is strategy in the draft because you have to set your priorities and rankings.  Guess what, by the time you get to the 4th round, its a crap shoot what type of player your are going to get.   Crap shoot also known as random chance.   So adding random chance to the game = bad...sorry its already there.  Something for nothing = bad...sorry its already there every year every draft.  I'm trying to the make the game more fun.  What is more fun that opening that DITR email and anxiously seeing who had a breakthrough.  Almost as fun as seeing your draft results.  Wait, or is that about the same thing.... 

6/22/2010 3:56 PM (edited)
MikeT23
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If everyone gets equal benefit, there's absolutely no point in it. 

Why not just randomly put a Hall of Famer on every team to start the season?   Same level of "fun" and "equal benefit".
6/22/2010 2:08 PM
apollo7
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deathinahole....are you another self appointed pooh bah that has self proclaimed themselves as speaking for the majority.  I don't think so.  Everyone has an equal voice here so don't tell me to drop it.

6/22/2010 2:09 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2010 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Already been discussed.   You draft the sure things first, the "potentials" second and the borderlines third.
 
Still no Piazza in round 62(if such a thing existed in HBD).   You get your potential DITR in round 2 or 3.  
Yah, but you're sacrificing a relatively "sure thing" in the 2nd/3rd round.  Most of my drafts get ML-quality down to the 3rd/4th round.  You'd be risking a future ML roster player for a 90% shot at total crap.

IMHO, it's better than getting the totally random DITR that goes from LowA to AA level.  I'd almost rather they drop the whole concept than keep it at it's current crappy level.
6/22/2010 2:10 PM
deathinahole
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You "equal voice" is unequal.
The majority feel your idea sucks. The less you speak, the less you have to hear how much it sucks.
I'm looking out for your well being.
6/22/2010 2:13 PM
MikeT23
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'tardcomm, it's not a tough choice.   I'm in the 2nd round, I see a guy who might develop into a stud or a probable 4th starter.   I can't think of any owner who says "Man, 4th starters are tough to come by.  Better be safe than sorry!"
6/22/2010 2:15 PM
apollo7
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Posted by deathinahole on 6/22/2010 2:13:00 PM (view original):
You "equal voice" is unequal.
The majority feel your idea sucks. The less you speak, the less you have to hear how much it sucks.
I'm looking out for your well being.
Ah, so you are another arrogant self righteous rick.  You DO NOT speak for the majority or minority, nor do I.  You speak for yourself only as do I.  Get off your high horse.
6/22/2010 2:18 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by deathinahole on 6/22/2010 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Funny how no one who is all for this doesn't think having the same random chance of having a legit propect ruined is a great idea.
Why? Because it's not something for nothing.

It's a STRATEGY game.

Other sites have virtual roulette and slots. Feel free to take your money there.
Has anyone really dumped on the concept of a 1st round bust?  I'd LOVE for there to be a 20% failure rate for 1st and 2nd rounders, whether for chronic injuries, cocaine, hookers, or whatever.  It's just that every draft year, more or less, produces approximately the same number of major leaguers, so you'd have to balance those failures with an equal number of surprises.

If there are about 80 legit major leaguers in any given pre-draft (roughly 2.5 rounds, with optimal drafting).  If some percentage, say 20%, of those are "busts", you're going to need 10-15 people from rounds 4-20 to "blossom", or the league quality of play will decline since there won't be enough replacements for retirements or older guys that decline below ML standards.
6/22/2010 2:18 PM
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