Job Process - Page 4 - Hoops Dynasty

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I've been following this thread since the beginning but have held of on commenting so far. I figured I have a few minutes so I'll throw my thoughts out there:

1. I think the job process and the recruit generation could both use a slight tweak. I like where recruit generation has gone. I like that there are a few elite players that have good battles for them. I do wish there were more of the "middle" recruits who are very solid DI players and a few who could turn into stars. I think the job process needs to be changed as mmt has mentioned. Baseline prestige should be used in the hiring process.

2. I dont necessarily think that people care less about the game. I know I care just as much but I dont have as much time to post as I used to. I've always gotten along with you OR, but I think sometimes you jump to a conclusion and just put it out there as fact.

3. I dont think the recruit generation made people quit. I think people like OR who have been against the change and so vocal about it made people quit. People quit before even giving the new recruits a chance. That is because there were so many people saying how unfair it is for mid-majors but that was after one season! If people give the changes a chance and if Seble would make minor tweaks, I think the game would be better than it ever has been.

4. Prior to the recruit change, I would say that 8 out of 12 teams in the BCS conferences had 80% of their players with maxed out categories. The new recruits are great because they all have flaws. There are very few "complete" players anymore. Thats a fact.

12/8/2010 8:55 AM

mmt0315

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Posted by oldresorter on 12/7/2010 7:42:00 PM (view original):
hopefully they will fix the job process.

i still don't know how a bad job process changed the game this dramatically the moment the new recruit generation hit the market .... I am glad you guys were not around when aristotle invented logic, we might be learning if a then b, if b then c, if c then the God exists or something along those lines - LOL

At this point, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone still posting / playing the game somewhat intensely who cares less either. It is what it is. I sort of hope it does not change at this point, there is no guarantee it would be fixed better.

And just for the record, having a decent track record at this game does not make gil or I wrong either. But most importantly, I predicted this would happen before it ever did. Where were all the me too guys piping up now voicing those opinions about job process hurting the d1 game last january when I practically begged seble not to implement his recruit generation plan???? Just saying .....

First off lets clarify several things:

1) I am not someone who thinks there is anything wrong with DI.

2) You are trying to make it sound as though something is not capable of being broken yet at the same time masked, that is nonsensical. So without regurtitating the entire argument its certainly possible that a minor problem had a dramatic affect once a tweak to something else was made. Its good you werent around when they set out to discover America --- THE WORLD IS FLAT!!! THE WORLD IS FLAT!!! LOL ;)

3) You keep saying you predicted "this" yet you never clarrify what "this" is. As Sully says later in this thread and as Jet said earlier. a) People quit long before the impact of recruit generation could be guaged because b) people always quit when there is change.

4) Just from reading the comments in this thread it seems outside of 2 or 3 people, the vast majority like the recruiting changes and for all the same reasons.

5) You are right, the fact you and GIL have "decent" (come on decent? they are among the best in the game) track records does not disqualify you from being right but I sometimes fear when you speak your word because of that track record is taken as gospel. Trust me it wasnt at knock at either of you as you both are two of the biggest proponents of making the game better and for that you should always be commended. The comment was a reminder to others that 24 national titles (or whatever gross number youre at these days) doesnt make your opinion any more or less valuable in terms of what it fun.

12/8/2010 9:39 AM

mmt0315

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Gil - I didnt copy your last reply to me as it wouldve taken the entire page. I guess I misunderstood the position you were coming from as it seemed you were longing for the days of old, when in fact you are not. Maybe the solution to your issue is as you said adding some more players in the middle tier. However, I do think any tweak should be minor indeed.

Also, the context in which I said DI Fed up was simply reusing the opinion given by OR. I think DI is fine personally.

My entire point of job hiring, is that if it were changed in a manner which allowed midmajors who are built up to remain there - DI as a whole would be exponentially more competitive, regardless of what type of recruit generation were used. In a world with less recruits and less high end recruits it becomes that much more important to the overall competitive balance and is really overlooked.

12/8/2010 10:11 AM

oldresorter

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Let me get it straight

@sullky - OR single handedly caused d1 to lose coaches rather than seble's ill-conceived recruit generation system,

@mason -anyone over 30 does not like change,

@mmt - a 8 year old problem is causing d1 to lose coaches ...

what the heck, you guys are probably right

12/8/2010 11:02 AM

pinkeye

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dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling

12/8/2010 11:11 AM

sully712

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Wow...dont think I ever said that OR single handedly caused DI to lose coaches. I said that your "the sky is falling" routine led to people to exit DI without giving it a chance. Before one season of the new recruits had gone through, you stated that DI was going to suck and people would leave. As mmt has said, your success in this game makes other players take notice of your stance. Lots of people quit before even giving the new recruits a chance.

And, I dont think that Seble's recruit generation was ill-conceived. I think it could use a couple of minor tweaks but I still think it is much better than what we had before.

12/8/2010 11:16 AM

sully712

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Posted by pinkeye on 12/8/2010 11:11:00 AM (view original):
dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling

LOL...I didnt even see this until after I had written my response...right on.

12/8/2010 11:17 AM

oldresorter

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Posted by pinkeye on 12/8/2010 11:11:00 AM (view original):
dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling

@pinkeye - don't know who you are - do you lie in real life too - I have honestly attempted to help this game, in this instance and in many others, as I do in real life

@sully - you think this is about the sky is falling, I am surprised you would resort to that tactic, I thought more of you

12/8/2010 11:20 AM

oldresorter

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Posted by sully712 on 12/8/2010 11:16:00 AM (view original):
Wow...dont think I ever said that OR single handedly caused DI to lose coaches. I said that your "the sky is falling" routine led to people to exit DI without giving it a chance. Before one season of the new recruits had gone through, you stated that DI was going to suck and people would leave. As mmt has said, your success in this game makes other players take notice of your stance. Lots of people quit before even giving the new recruits a chance.

And, I dont think that Seble's recruit generation was ill-conceived. I think it could use a couple of minor tweaks but I still think it is much better than what we had before.

I actually said the recruit generation would make the game less fun 6 months before it was introduced, if you want to be technically correct

12/8/2010 11:21 AM

kmasonbx1

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Posted by pinkeye on 12/8/2010 11:11:00 AM (view original):
dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling

Lol. OR you are way simplifying everybodies argument. If that's what you get from what we are saying then I guess our arguments are falling on def ears (there goes that stubbordness I touched on in that old people crowd

). It feels like you are ignoring the crust of our arguments simply because of 1 part you don't agree with.

You said you liked it better when teams were filled up with amazing players better than now where there are more flawed players because in your opinion that made the game more about coaching. While I argue with players being more flawed now it makes coaching matter even more than before because there are more things to try to take advantage of and at the same time even the elite teams have defeciencies they have to try to make up for.

For the most part I think recruit generation is fine although I do think when you see a PF with 12reb and not very good perimeter skills listed as a D1 or even a D2 recruit I think it's far fetched. I also think there should be more guys who look like mid major guys who turn into All-American types. For example a guard who is listed with 55ath/55sp/60D/20lp/40per/50bh/50pass but has high WE and is hi/hi in many of those categories, so he may start out in the 500s but by the time he graduates he's a mid to high 800 player.

12/8/2010 11:24 AM

sully712

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What does that have anything to do with this? So, people had six months to hear you complain about the new recruits before they actually came out. You never even gave it a chance. People didnt want to adapt to the new recruits, so they took your stance and quit.

I think the game is as fun now as it has ever been.

12/8/2010 11:26 AM

sully712

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Posted by kmasonbx1 on 12/8/2010 11:24:00 AM (view original):
Posted by pinkeye on 12/8/2010 11:11:00 AM (view original):
dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling
Lol. OR you are way simplifying everybodies argument. If that's what you get from what we are saying then I guess our arguments are falling on def ears (there goes that stubbordness I touched on in that old people crowd ). It feels like you are ignoring the crust of our arguments simply because of 1 part you don't agree with.

You said you liked it better when teams were filled up with amazing players better than now where there are more flawed players because in your opinion that made the game more about coaching. While I argue with players being more flawed now it makes coaching matter even more than before because there are more things to try to take advantage of and at the same time even the elite teams have defeciencies they have to try to make up for.

For the most part I think recruit generation is fine although I do think when you see a PF with 12reb and not very good perimeter skills listed as a D1 or even a D2 recruit I think it's far fetched. I also think there should be more guys who look like mid major guys who turn into All-American types. For example a guard who is listed with 55ath/55sp/60D/20lp/40per/50bh/50pass but has high WE and is hi/hi in many of those categories, so he may start out in the 500s but by the time he graduates he's a mid to high 800 player.

+1...couldnt say it better myself.

I personally hated when so many teams had players with 99s across the board. There was no "coaching" to do.

12/8/2010 11:27 AM

pinkeye

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Posted by oldresorter on 12/8/2010 11:20:00 AM (view original):
Posted by pinkeye on 12/8/2010 11:11:00 AM (view original):
dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling
@pinkeye - don't know who you are - do you lie in real life too - I have honestly attempted to help this game, in this instance and in many others, as I do in real life

@sully - you think this is about the sky is falling, I am surprised you would resort to that tactic, I thought more of you

of course i lie in real life - guys like you and i just can't help it

12/8/2010 11:41 AM

mmt0315

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Posted by oldresorter on 12/8/2010 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Let me get it straight

@sullky - OR single handedly caused d1 to lose coaches rather than seble's ill-conceived recruit generation system,

@mason -anyone over 30 does not like change,

@mmt - a 8 year old problem is causing d1 to lose coaches ...

what the heck, you guys are probably right

Or --- We must be on different planets or talking about different things.

Im assuming youre talking about recruit generation leading to people leaving DI, I am not. You keep saying DI is Fed up and You were right about something you said many months ago, which I was still waiting to hear what exactly it was you predicted. If it was that people would leave, well people always leave after every change, but stats show that there are relatively the same amount of DI coaches then as now. If you'd like to shed light on what exactly youre right about I am waiting in anticipation.

My point regarding job process is I feel it is the thing about DI in most need of change; not because people are leaving but because it has the biggest impact on the competitive balance, specifically with the new changes to the game. You dont want to understand the point fine that on you. But what does it tell you, when everyone who has commented in here besides you and 1 or 2 others have said how much they like the recruit generation. You are trying to put words in my mouth and trying to make our points look meak by belittling them. You want to have a conversation on the subject, cool, want to revert to what the forums have become and why Ive generally stayed away for the past several months, well thats ok too, I suppose.

12/8/2010 11:41 AM

sully712

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Posted by oldresorter on 12/8/2010 11:20:00 AM (view original):
Posted by pinkeye on 12/8/2010 11:11:00 AM (view original):
dont forget

@oldresorter- the sky is falling
@pinkeye - don't know who you are - do you lie in real life too - I have honestly attempted to help this game, in this instance and in many others, as I do in real life

@sully - you think this is about the sky is falling, I am surprised you would resort to that tactic, I thought more of you

OR - You never even gave this change a chance, just like everyone who quit or complained before 4 seasons of new recruits had come out. I think you have helped the game and I'm not taking that away from you. I just disagree with you on this topic.

12/8/2010 11:43 AM

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