Posted by MikeT23 on 2/18/2015 9:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sgmedia on 2/18/2015 9:07:00 AM (view original):
But on the other hand, if none of the individual trades was lopsided enough for ten owners ( or however many are needed) to click the veto button, then there is not much you can do, is there?

I don't veto BL talent for BL talent deals.    Maybe one guy just crushes it while the other owner gets three nice roster fillers.   My opinion is the 2nd owner needs to be smarter.    But I don't play in worlds where there are that many of the 2nd type of owners.   Because, quite frankly, watching a guy win 115 games for 10 consecutive seasons because he's crushed the dumbasses who don't know any better does not appeal to me.

So, as tec said, one option is to leave the world.   Another option is to teach the dumbasses. 

I'm not going to say it was a "problem", because he wasn't overly dominant during the regular season, but this guy http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/UserProfile.aspx?uid=112807 had an insane run in MG.   I finally said "Why, when deano says "need a LHP" do you dipshits fall all over one another to trade him one?   He's won 5 WS in a row and you keep feeding him whatever he needs.  You have to beat him too, you know."    It's like no one had thought of it but trading got a little harder for him.   He asked to be replaced during ST because he picked up an option on a guy he thought he could trade.  When he couldn't, he got mad and quit.

I think I took over that team when he quit

Think again.

then I took over another one of his teams when he quit

I have no access to additional information.

One other option is to work harder at building a team and stop crying.

Trades are a big part of the game and some owners are better at it than others. I have played the game just long enough to understand the work and time it takes to make trades. I have not seen lop sided trades that destroy a franchise going on in any of the worlds I play in as the ownership veto's them. That does not mean that trades must be balanced or with no team having a advantage imop. I never try and make a bad trade who does? Teams that hold the top draft slots tend to have more turn over and as a result less experienced owners that is a reality.

Posted by rmancil on 2/18/2015 7:08:00 AM (view original):
I play in another world that the commissioner has a super stud team with the same formula but he works the draft angle and ignores the international F.A.  market. He does not cheat he out works most of the world owners. Funny how so many people struggle with other's success, why not learn from them ? Winners don't always cheat lot's of the time they just work harder and play smarter.

No one is saying people who do it this way (or the IFA way) are cheating.  I didn't say that and didn't imply it.  What I know to be true is that if the "smart guy" makes those kinds of trades with newer guy or not so smart guy, he wins those almost every time.  I stay away from those worlds if I can for selfish  reasons.  If the "smart guy" has his dynasty in place, that usually means there are willing traders who can't see what he sees (and what I see), and the general quality is not as good.

I joined a new themed world recently and the first trade offer I got was from a guy that's won 5 of the last 6 WS (before the theme change).  The first trade offer from him was 2 rock solid 30 year old veterans - real good players - for my two best prospects, one of which was the number one overall the season prior.  My prospects are most likely going to be what those guys are.  Obviously way more valuable because of the value of their club controlled seasons.  I know now exactly why he won the titles he has....

Posted by silentpadna on 2/18/2015 10:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by rmancil on 2/18/2015 7:08:00 AM (view original):
I play in another world that the commissioner has a super stud team with the same formula but he works the draft angle and ignores the international F.A.  market. He does not cheat he out works most of the world owners. Funny how so many people struggle with other's success, why not learn from them ? Winners don't always cheat lot's of the time they just work harder and play smarter.

No one is saying people who do it this way (or the IFA way) are cheating.  I didn't say that and didn't imply it.  What I know to be true is that if the "smart guy" makes those kinds of trades with newer guy or not so smart guy, he wins those almost every time.  I stay away from those worlds if I can for selfish  reasons.  If the "smart guy" has his dynasty in place, that usually means there are willing traders who can't see what he sees (and what I see), and the general quality is not as good.

I joined a new themed world recently and the first trade offer I got was from a guy that's won 5 of the last 6 WS (before the theme change).  The first trade offer from him was 2 rock solid 30 year old veterans - real good players - for my two best prospects, one of which was the number one overall the season prior.  My prospects are most likely going to be what those guys are.  Obviously way more valuable because of the value of their club controlled seasons.  I know now exactly why he won the titles he has....

Ok so when will you be dropping this world? Some new owners think they can trade into a winning club sign a few FA and win now. Some do some don't. It is all part of the game, I agree with your idea of team building and talent value's that said it does not mean a new owner can't do it the other way in fact I just lost a WS to one.

I would if I thought it would play the same way.  This world is a novelty because of its special rules, like a 20 man 40-man limit at Rule 5 and the like.  There are 18-20 new owners in it - looking to see if it is format that may work.   A lot of us are looking at this because of other issues in the game - primarily the fact that progression is so easy to predict in players.

Ultimately rmancil, you aren't saying anything that many of us haven't heard already.  At this point, years into HBD, I have no desire to compete in a world that is imbalanced enough (experience-wise) to allow the perpetual dynasty built off the less-experienced.  No, it's not cheating, and it's probably fun for the owners that succeed that way.  If this new format world doesn't succeed, I probably won't stick with it - right now it's own rules are its novelty...

Perhaps that is where you and I see the game differently. I don't mind a challenge in fact I enjoy one. The idea someone is smart or has a strong team does not intimidate me. I signed up to play with smart owners who each have a style that they enjoy. I don't agree with all of them but I do think they have a right to play the game with what ever style they choose. I also enjoy learning.

I tend to quit games that afford me fast success in as they lack a challenge but that is me.

Ever watch The Walking Dead?   If so, you've heard of Terminus.    And you've heard this "You're either the cattle or the butcher."    That's what you're describing.   I have no interest in competing in worlds where the cattle are willing.   Even if I'm the butcher.

Know what I mean?

I don't really like trades in general in this game. Whenever I get a trade offer out of the blue, there's about a 90% chance that it's some idiot offering two overpaid has-beens for my top prospect. I've noticed that this type of offer has decreased, though, now that I've got about 15-20 seasons unde my belt, which is sad because it indicates hese people were intentionally seeking out someone they considered vulnerable.

On the other side, I can't imagine trying to pick on a weakling myself. It just doesn't seem like it would be very rewarding to rip someone off and steal his future superstars. And since personal satisfaction is really the only reason to play this game, that's a big incentive for me not to even bother trading with Newish players.

Here's the thing(and I don't think rmancil sees it yet):

Worlds can take the "We're all adults.  Do what you do" stance.  That's great.  I even tend to agree.   But, in order to do what's best for the world, that doesn't always work.  You bring in new/unsuccessful owners.   They're picked clean by the vultures.    They give up and move on.  Vultures build powerhouses.   World rolls and there are 10 openings.   Owners in the world say "Man, what is up?  This is a great world with a lot of competitive owners!!!!"   And, to an extent, they're right.   They have 16-18 really competitive owners.   And half a world that isn't on their level.    Then no one does anything to protect the half that doesn't know any better.   Rather than say "Why do we have 10 openings every year?" and address it, they say "There's a supply/demand issue" or "WifS needs to do some advertising" or "Some updates would bring people in" or "We've just had a run of bad luck" or anything that doesn't point the finger at the powerhouse teams that have been built by vulturing those that don't know any better.

AND EVERYFUCKINGBODY IN THIS THREAD IS SAYING "I would look right past that world if I was looking to add a team."    

Take note.