Posted by Uofa2 on 6/18/2020 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coreander on 6/18/2020 12:42:00 PM (view original):
I do not want centrist allies. If older, "moderate Democrats" are going to criticize "looters", I want all statues of our founding fathers and anyone who took part in the "American Revolution" removed. If you cannot see how they are the same thing, you are just as guilty of being blinded by your privilege.

Or I allow nuance into the conversation and don't let perfect be the enemy of good. But stay on that soapbox, Yale.

In a battle between fascism and justice, those that remain on the fence are just fascists in disguise

Posted by coreander on 6/18/2020 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/18/2020 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coreander on 6/18/2020 12:42:00 PM (view original):
I do not want centrist allies. If older, "moderate Democrats" are going to criticize "looters", I want all statues of our founding fathers and anyone who took part in the "American Revolution" removed. If you cannot see how they are the same thing, you are just as guilty of being blinded by your privilege.

Or I allow nuance into the conversation and don't let perfect be the enemy of good. But stay on that soapbox, Yale.

In a battle between fascism and justice, those that remain on the fence are just fascists in disguise

Yeah, wylie and me are fascists in disguise riding the fence, good call. You're on a roll.

I do not think either of you are fascists, but if you're criticizing Black Lives Matter protesters for looting in the wake of EVERYTHING that has happened you are certainly NOT allies. I just want us to stay on message and not fall for the tactics of the divisive right :)

There are plenty of black activists who are criticizing the looting - some even who set up BLM marches. Do you believe that none of those people have a place in the movement?

If it were actually true that the consensus opinion among POC was "looting good", then I would agree with you. I'm not sure that is the case.

I will agree that focusing on looting and burning is ridiculous and offensive. Is every social movement supposed to cease the second one of the people at a rally decides to break a window?

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/18/2020 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coreander on 6/18/2020 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/18/2020 12:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/18/2020 10:48:00 AM (view original):
You honestly think we are going to defend burning stores? Why does this even matter, all3?

I have spoken to several people (my own son is one) who defended the rioting and looting. Is it that much of a big step to defend burning down a Wendy's? I don't defend any of it. You riot, loot or destroy property, you are no longer a protester, you are a criminal.

How do you think revolutions happen? It is your white privilege that leads you to prioritize property over black lives. Defund the police. Say their names. No more innocent people shot for the crime of falling asleep at Wendy's. Black Lives Matter not white fragility!

Y'all really gotta get better at not alienating allies.

I am not coreander's ally.

Posted by coreander on 6/18/2020 1:19:00 PM (view original):
I do not think either of you are fascists, but if you're criticizing Black Lives Matter protesters for looting in the wake of EVERYTHING that has happened you are certainly NOT allies. I just want us to stay on message and not fall for the tactics of the divisive right :)

Nowhere in my post about looters and rioters did I even mention BLM. Are you saying all the looters and rioters were BLM supporters? I'm sure some of them may be, but not all of them. If BLM protesters looted and rioted, then yes, I am criticizing them. That does nothing good for a very worthwhile cause. It only gives BLM detractors a reason to criticize BLM. It also takes away from the issue and makes everyone talk about the looting and rioting.

That's kind of uofa's point. You could be.

I could be what? coreander's ally? No thanks.

An ally to BLM?

who says I am not a BLM ally already? Just because I don't approve of rioting or looting doesn't mean I don't approve of BLM's message.

We're on the same page. Uofa's point was that you don't want to push people away from the movement. By focusing on defending looting, people like you, wylie, will be less likely to support BLM.

That said, coreander still serves some utility. By focusing on "defunding the police", they make it easier to defend "reform the police".

“No more innocent people shot for the crime of falling asleep at Wendy's.”

The whole Atlanta shooting stinks in a LOT of ways. You saying something STUPID like that is one of them. He was DRUNK. He RESISTED ARREST. He then STOLE A POLICE WEAPON and RAN. He then AIMED THE WEAPON AT THE COP, who only THEN used deadly force.

The cop is getting railroaded into a MURDER rap for DOING WHAT HE WAS TRAINED TO DO. Say the system is the problem, say the training is the problem, say that the use of “deadly” force should be TAUGHT to be a last resort after FIRST attempting to use NON-LETHAL force. Say that officers should be trained to not have to “Shoot to Kill” EVERY TIME they draw their weapon.

This feels like the cop is being NAILED TO THE CROSS for doing his JOB the way he was TRAINED to do it.

Yes, ANOTHER black man ended up dead. Yes, that is horrible and tragic. But THIS PARTICULAR CASE isn’t solving ANYTHING for ANYONE. In fact, I fear it is only exacerbating the flames already burning so bright. If I was a cop and I saw this case I would seriously reconsider my career choice.

Somebody (I’m looking at you coreander) explain to me how the “blame” for this falls on the officer alone? Tell me why the FACT that the victim was DRUNK, RESISTED ARREST, STOLE A POLICE WEAPON, RAN and AIMED THE WEAPON AT THE COP doesn’t matter in your narrative? This cop is taking the fall right now for EVERYTHING except what he did, which was, as distasteful as it is, his JOB.

Seriously...What should the cop have done and WHY?

As far as I am aware, the man wasn't actually in position to tase the cop. Am I incorrect about that?

Maybe he should NOT have shot the guy in the Back!

Posted by coreander on 6/18/2020 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/18/2020 12:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/18/2020 10:48:00 AM (view original):
You honestly think we are going to defend burning stores? Why does this even matter, all3?

I have spoken to several people (my own son is one) who defended the rioting and looting. Is it that much of a big step to defend burning down a Wendy's? I don't defend any of it. You riot, loot or destroy property, you are no longer a protester, you are a criminal.

How do you think revolutions happen? It is your white privilege that leads you to prioritize property over black lives. Defund the police. Say their names. No more innocent people shot for the crime of falling asleep at Wendy's. Black Lives Matter not white fragility!

Brings me back to my original point from a week or 2 ago.

If you can say all the names, it's not that many names. There are bigger fish to fry.