There is serious talent in the D3 pool if you dig deep enough...here's a sim-recruited D3 player who's one of the top scorers in the nation in Phelan:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=14508&pid=4963014

is that guy really that good though? my minimal d3 experience (couple random teams to test random stuff), i saw a few really, really nice d3-recruited guys, like IMO a lot better than this guy. so i agree with the premise. but those guys mostly looked to me like guys who panned out really nicely on their greens, where probably at recruiting time, better options were available in the higher division pools. impossible to know where that lotto is going to hit! (maybe not always true but i think it is at least in the d3 pool context)

My first season playing, I blew most of my scouting money on the D3 pool before I knew what I was doing. That is where I got this guy (https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=14576&pid=4963246) who's a solid scorer/mediocre defender. That one was helped by good greens in LP/PER (and had 6 greens/4 blacks/1 yellow, so a lot of potential overall).

That being said, the pickings were slim and I rounded out my roster with D1/D2 guys after cutting half my roster at the start of RS2.

I miss the days when d3 recruited mostly from the d3 pool and you battled other d3 coaches for those players.

New signings. They aren't very good, but were very cheap and I need to sign a large class. Could be decently useful from a role player standpoint.

I signed 4. They would be okay on d2 teams but prob not getting it done at d1.

Posted by gillispie on 2/7/2022 4:23:00 PM (view original):
is that guy really that good though? my minimal d3 experience (couple random teams to test random stuff), i saw a few really, really nice d3-recruited guys, like IMO a lot better than this guy. so i agree with the premise. but those guys mostly looked to me like guys who panned out really nicely on their greens, where probably at recruiting time, better options were available in the higher division pools. impossible to know where that lotto is going to hit! (maybe not always true but i think it is at least in the d3 pool context)

FWIW he would have been a starter on any of my national championship winning squads at DePauw in Knight.

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 2/8/2022 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 2/7/2022 4:23:00 PM (view original):
is that guy really that good though? my minimal d3 experience (couple random teams to test random stuff), i saw a few really, really nice d3-recruited guys, like IMO a lot better than this guy. so i agree with the premise. but those guys mostly looked to me like guys who panned out really nicely on their greens, where probably at recruiting time, better options were available in the higher division pools. impossible to know where that lotto is going to hit! (maybe not always true but i think it is at least in the d3 pool context)

FWIW he would have been a starter on any of my national championship winning squads at DePauw in Knight.

interesting. that is definitely worth a lot IMO, at least, compared to what i know! which is not much.

i just am not a huge fan of the shape of the guy i suppose, but i also am spoiled i guess by the life of relatively luxury of being like a B school in d1, although it sure feels like its endlessly my turn in the barrel. anyway, he definitely has some skills, i just struggle to see where i'd put him except as a filler sf on a team of basically studs who do everything we need already and he just fills in a little bit everywhere.

curious, role/position wise, how do you see using him? also, do i under-estimate his offense? i am sort of figuring him as a filler offensive player, but definitely not a lead, is that far off? not really very familiar with the kind of defenses you guys face down in d3 these days. but when i look at top d3 teams they always look way better than i am used to seeing. maybe i am just being skewed by seeing the really interesting and interesting d3 players, having my mind blown, and then that sort of becomes the new normal. plus i don't like well rounded players in general so that is probably skewing my views a bit.

Posted by Benis on 2/7/2022 5:00:00 PM (view original):
I miss the days when d3 recruited mostly from the d3 pool and you battled other d3 coaches for those players.

i am curious when these days were? i missed early and mid 1.0, but, i have never seen a time when d3 recruited mostly from d3 and you battled other d3 coaches for those players. i do recall when high d3 recruited mostly from d2 and battled mostly nobody but mostly lower d2 schools. but i suppose there were the unwashed masses of d3 coaches who didn't know about pulldowns or even dropdowns, who really were not even playing the same game as the pulldown crowd, and who basically just got slaughtered by the 5% for years on end.

more importantly, glad those days are over! the days of HD success through glitchy bullshit that is not remotely documented anywhere, where admins publicly and repeatedly denounce the existence of critical things that most certainly existed (and as best i can tell, the admins knew better, i still shake my head at that one)... that is not how it should work, you shouldn't have to know the secret handshake to have even a half *** shot of competing. now, i am no fan of today's 3.0 d2/d3 recruiting, i tried it and could not bear it, but old d2/d3 recruiting were a compete f'ing nightmare, too. just atrocious from a game design standpoint (send 200 phone calls and individually read the responses to see who is recruitable... are you kidding me? plus the secret handshake stuff - it HAD to go).

i do agree its stupid to have d3 recruiting d1 today, though!!

Posted by gillispie on 2/8/2022 4:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 2/8/2022 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 2/7/2022 4:23:00 PM (view original):
is that guy really that good though? my minimal d3 experience (couple random teams to test random stuff), i saw a few really, really nice d3-recruited guys, like IMO a lot better than this guy. so i agree with the premise. but those guys mostly looked to me like guys who panned out really nicely on their greens, where probably at recruiting time, better options were available in the higher division pools. impossible to know where that lotto is going to hit! (maybe not always true but i think it is at least in the d3 pool context)

FWIW he would have been a starter on any of my national championship winning squads at DePauw in Knight.

interesting. that is definitely worth a lot IMO, at least, compared to what i know! which is not much.

i just am not a huge fan of the shape of the guy i suppose, but i also am spoiled i guess by the life of relatively luxury of being like a B school in d1, although it sure feels like its endlessly my turn in the barrel. anyway, he definitely has some skills, i just struggle to see where i'd put him except as a filler sf on a team of basically studs who do everything we need already and he just fills in a little bit everywhere.

curious, role/position wise, how do you see using him? also, do i under-estimate his offense? i am sort of figuring him as a filler offensive player, but definitely not a lead, is that far off? not really very familiar with the kind of defenses you guys face down in d3 these days. but when i look at top d3 teams they always look way better than i am used to seeing. maybe i am just being skewed by seeing the really interesting and interesting d3 players, having my mind blown, and then that sort of becomes the new normal. plus i don't like well rounded players in general so that is probably skewing my views a bit.

81/74 BH/P is huge for DIII. That combined with solid ATH and solid DEF not sure what other boxes he needs to check.

to play what, pg?

Posted by gillispie on 2/8/2022 4:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/7/2022 5:00:00 PM (view original):
I miss the days when d3 recruited mostly from the d3 pool and you battled other d3 coaches for those players.

i am curious when these days were? i missed early and mid 1.0, but, i have never seen a time when d3 recruited mostly from d3 and you battled other d3 coaches for those players. i do recall when high d3 recruited mostly from d2 and battled mostly nobody but mostly lower d2 schools. but i suppose there were the unwashed masses of d3 coaches who didn't know about pulldowns or even dropdowns, who really were not even playing the same game as the pulldown crowd, and who basically just got slaughtered by the 5% for years on end.

more importantly, glad those days are over! the days of HD success through glitchy bullshit that is not remotely documented anywhere, where admins publicly and repeatedly denounce the existence of critical things that most certainly existed (and as best i can tell, the admins knew better, i still shake my head at that one)... that is not how it should work, you shouldn't have to know the secret handshake to have even a half *** shot of competing. now, i am no fan of today's 3.0 d2/d3 recruiting, i tried it and could not bear it, but old d2/d3 recruiting were a compete f'ing nightmare, too. just atrocious from a game design standpoint (send 200 phone calls and individually read the responses to see who is recruitable... are you kidding me? plus the secret handshake stuff - it HAD to go).

i do agree its stupid to have d3 recruiting d1 today, though!!

I agree, the previous version was tedious for pull downs and drop downs.

But I had quite a bit of success without having to do too much of that. I remember my first title in HD ever at CNU only had 1 guy that was a d2 pull down. So you didn't HAVE to do it but it was certainly beneficial if you did.

And I never ever got into battles with a d2 while at d3. It was super difficult to beat a school the division above you so I wouldn't even bother.

I miss more about d3 is that the players were all very flawed but combining them into a great team was the fun part. In my humble opinion of course

Cub and mlitney nailed it tho (I believe they said it)..... the separate pools are just game design. The talent is what makes the player. Not the pool. Just because a player is in the D2 pool doesn't mean that D1 schools should not be allowed to recruit them. Looking thru those eyes, there's nothing to really be bothered. We're all just searching the country for talent in the end.

Posted by trojan4309 on 2/5/2022 8:57:00 PM (view original):
As has been mentioned, no one (95-100%) Cubcub is signing would ever make it to D3. They’d all get snatched up by D2 schools at least if they weren’t signed by Sac state or another D1.

To be fair, saying "no one (95-100%)" implies that actually it's not none and up to one out of every twenty on average could slip to D3. That's less than two cycles through a roster of 12.

Posted by mlitney on 2/7/2022 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Man, if I had a dollar for every time I heard a D2/D3 coach complain about a D1 coach "poaching" their recruit. The entitlement is real. The players may be broken up into their projected divisions, but it's still one big player pool. It's just a projection and the sim isn't all that great at them.

If you don't want to deal with other coaches poaching your targets, move yourself up to the top levels of this game. If you enjoy D3 and want to stay there, get used to the fact that it's just 1 pool and you're only going to sign the kids that D1 and D2 coaches pass over.

Also, as Benis has noted, there are several D1 teams looking at projected D2 players. This isn't just happening in one area. It's happening to all D2/D3 coaches and so you're not at a competitive disadvantage. It's a result of 140+ coaches in D1, and that probably isn't changing anytime soon.

Ok, I'm done with my annual rant where I look like an a-hole. I guess we all need to vent every now and again.

I don't think you're being an a-hole at all. Unhelpful commenters like A_B_G maybe...

What you've said, I get all of it and agree. I know about the lay of the land at D3, at least in a couple worlds. I know about poaching (which I mentioned but not as a complaint about that). This thread is not about poaching, nor scouting some D2 to find the diamond in the rough. It is playing the game by an arbitrary set of self-imposed rules. Not getting into it again, I promise. Just making clear my stance.

I'm not complaining about those aforementioned things that happen in the natural and organic sense of all programs and coaches trying to win. And don't feel entitled to anything based on geography, status, ranking, or recruit pool. I know that the guys that these experimenters are going after wouldn't be "mine" except for them. But the odds ARE skewed a bit when great recruiters like cub, Benis, etc. lower the bar for an average of ~3 recruits per year each (not overwhelmingly of course, but to potentially 3 of the active lower division coaches per season).

I have a much better shot fighting off the "big guy" when it's my primary vs. his back-up. It's not always a slam-dunk because a bigger, better school comes in. I've lost a lot of those types, but I've won a couple (at D3 I won a flip vs. a middling big six who came in late). But you're much more unlikely to win vs anyone with more resources and prestige when you go in at the same time with lopsided up-front resources.

I won a D3 title with two+ crazy successful D2 programs (Benis and Sportsbulls, etc) and great D1 programs (I forget the coaches, but it was St. Louis and Missouri) in-state so I know about having to find other ways of getting top talent and I've done pretty good. Never complained about that at all. Even tried going toe-to-toe with Benis for a couple recruits (which I lost every time, but got one to a flip close to 50-50 if that's a success). It was actually fun being the underdog. So, anyway I know that at D3 you get the left-overs in most cases.

So the TLDR version: Not an a-hole. I agree with everything you said. I'm not entitled, just a bit whiny when recruiting started up and had this pop onto my radar.