Diagnostics for Leadoff Hitters II Topic

Except when it advances or scores a runner. Something that can't be done on a strikeout.
2/22/2008 6:06 PM
Look back at your example.
8 guys strikeout every time. I guy homers 4 times.
Replace the strikeouts with groundouts and the results are the same.
2/22/2008 6:07 PM
lol
2/22/2008 6:09 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/22/2008
Except when it advances or scores a runner. Something that can't be done on a strikeout.
Literally wrong.
2/22/2008 6:09 PM
Correct. Except something like that never happens. I was simply pointing out that all those strikeouts do nothing to help you score.
2/22/2008 6:10 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/22/2008
Correct. Except something like that never happens. I was simply pointing out that all those strikeouts do nothing to help you score.
Except compared with what could have happened.

You're comparing strikeouts to "helping to score" - why is it off limits to compare strikeouts to "ending innings via the double play?"
2/22/2008 6:11 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 2/22/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/22/2008

Except when it advances or scores a runner. Something that can't be done on a strikeout.
Literally wrong
Literally wrong. The runner doesn't advance because of the strikeout. The runner may advance due to a wild pitch that a hitter swung at, but the runner is not advancing as a result of the strikeout.
2/22/2008 6:13 PM
Mike says runners can't advance or score a strikeout - not without poor defensive play.
Untrue.
2/22/2008 6:14 PM
Of course runners don't advance because you swing and miss. What sort of dipshit would claim that?
2/22/2008 6:14 PM
So you're saying it's never happened? A runner has never scored or advanced on a strikeout, without a past ball, wild pitch, or error?
2/22/2008 6:15 PM
its called a steal.
2/22/2008 6:16 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 2/22/2008
So you're saying it's never happened? A runner has never scored or advanced on a strikeout, without a past ball, wild pitch, or error?
"On a strikeout", perhaps, but not BECAUSE of one.
2/22/2008 6:18 PM
Some people, when cornered and wrong, will nitpick. That's why I stop reading their foolishness. "If you can't be right, be annoying" isn't really an effective way to debate.
2/22/2008 6:18 PM
more than halfway to another full thread! lets get this thing filled!
2/22/2008 6:19 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/22/2008
Correct. Except something like that never happens. I was simply pointing out that all those strikeouts do nothing to help you score.
Look Mike, I agree that strikeouts aren't good. Of course they are detrimental to run scoring.

My argument is that they aren't any more detrimental than any other out.

Your counter argument is that sometimes those outs do help (albeit not as much as a hit). Which is true.

But sometimes those contact outs turn into double plays. No one is saying that you should strikeout to avoid the double play, but they can't be ignored. Even if they don't happen very frequently.

And since all we can really work with are large sample sizes (I know you refuse to admit this, but come on...you can't draw real conclusions or make good predictions without large sample sizes) those productive outs and double plays even out over time. And in the end, how you made the outs isn't important.

2/22/2008 6:21 PM
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Diagnostics for Leadoff Hitters II Topic

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