Pens Thread: Go Pens Go! - Page 44 - NHL

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Quote: Originally posted by nickhead on 5/13/2010Not everybody who leads, are dominant players.. How do you know guys like Rivet are not great team leaders? They must have the C for a reason.. maybe its dressing room presence?

The reason I name Rivet is not because of his skill level. As you probably know he spent alot of years playing in Montreal, my hometown. During those years, when Saku Koivu was captain and Rivet was one of the leaders on those teams, their dressing room was severly fragmented. Cliques had formed and Craig Rivet was at the center of the split between the French, Anglophone and European players and that was the team's downfall for years.

Now this probably wasn't big news to the rest of the hockey world because the Habs weren't exactly a top team back then, and Craig Rivet, let's face it, isn't news worthy, but in a city where every little thing about the hockey team is scrutinized in 2 languages no less, it was a very big deal and that was what punched his ticket out of town.

In my opinion, if Rivet was a good leader, he would have helped rectify the problem, instead of instigating it. And if he wasn't part of the problem in the room, he would have still been here because he actually was a real steady player for this team.

5/13/2010 11:53 PM

nickhead

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OK

Instead of Rivet, lets use Luongo.. maybe he is a great leader in the dressing room

5/14/2010 12:02 AM

nickhead

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Or maybe McCabe is a great leader because he brings the most experience to the Florida dressing room and can lead because he has been in the center of the universe?

5/14/2010 12:05 AM

andru2797

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Quote: Originally posted by nickhead on 5/14/2010OKInstead of Rivet, lets use Luongo.. maybe he is a great leader in the dressing room

Any player who publicly throws his team under the bus after a playoff loss like that without taking any responsibility, saying that he "battled" for 60 minutes, is no leader in my book. Enough said.

5/14/2010 12:07 AM

andru2797

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Quote: Originally posted by nickhead on 5/14/2010Or maybe McCabe is a great leader because he brings the most experience to the Florida dressing room and can lead because he has been in the center of the universe?

Bryan McCabe takes dumb penalties, is terrible defensively and is sometimes reckless on the ice. He might be a great leader in the room, I don't know, but he doesn't seem to set a good example on the ice, which is a mark all good leaders, dominant or not, have had. This however I do concede is the weakest of my arguments of the 3 players I criticized.

5/14/2010 12:09 AM

andru2797

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On another note, I came across an interesting trade proposition put forth in an article by The Hockey News about the Pittsburgh Penguins off-season plans. It actually made a pretty good case for them to trade Evgeni Malkin and I wondered what Pens fans thought of this.

The deal breaks down like this:

To Edmonton:
Evgeni Malkin
5th round draft choice

To Pittsburgh:
1st overall pick (Taylor Hall)
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson
Sheldon Souray

Now I think this might make sense because it gives the Penguins two solid young top 6 wingers which they sorely lack, they can move up Staal to play center on the 2nd line and they get a powerplay quarterback to replace Gonchar. It would also free up about 3 million dollars in cap space when things are all said and done. Considering the Penguins have only 16 players signed next season and only about 11 million to spend, that cash could go a long way.

For Edmonton, they get the franchise player they have been lacking for many years and a young player to build a good hockey team around. Perhaps more importantly right now, hey also get an attraction to get some butts back in the seats. They also rid themselves of Souray, who has stated that he does not want to be there.

Thoughts?

5/14/2010 12:09 AM

donaldjl

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That's all I've been hearing all day from the "diehard" Pittsburgh dipshit fans.

Here's a breakdown of the past 4 seasons.....06/07....The Pens lose to the Sens in round 1...." That's alright, they're a good young team, they'll be back."
07/08...The Pens lose in the finals..."That's ok, they're a good young team, they'll be back."
08/09...The Pens win the Cup..."Told you they would win it. We have to keep these young superstars together, they're gonna be good for a long time."
09/10...The Pens lose to the Habs in round 2...."Shero should have signed some better support players, Bylsma and the rest of the coaching staff suck, They should trade Malkin, Fleury, etc..."

5/14/2010 12:39 AM

andru2797

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Well, to be fair donald, I think the whole world knows 2 things right now about this team.

1. They do not have proper top 6 wingers for their top 2 lines.

2. Although Kennedy Staal and Cooke have been great as a 3rd line, Jordan Staal would be a 2, maybe even a 1 somewhere else.

5/14/2010 12:44 AM

andru2797

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And if they don't trade Malkin, well all that means is that they still have 3 great centers. I'd say it's a good dilemma to have going into the off-season.

5/14/2010 12:45 AM

pttsbrghkid

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Quote: Originally Posted By donaldjl on 5/14/2010
That's all I've been hearing all day from the "diehard" Pittsburgh dipshit fans.

Here's a breakdown of the past 4 seasons.....06/07....The Pens lose to the Sens in round 1...." That's alright, they're a good young team, they'll be back."
07/08...The Pens lose in the finals..."That's ok, they're a good young team, they'll be back."
08/09...The Pens win the Cup..."Told you they would win it. We have to keep these young superstars together, they're gonna be good for a long time."
09/10...The Pens lose to the Habs in round 2...."Shero should have signed some better support players, Bylsma and the rest of the coaching staff suck, They should trade Malkin, Fleury, etc..."

The fact of the matter is they have more talent down the middle than any team. YOUNG talent. Of course, the league now has a salary cap. The three centers combined for 21.5 million in salary last year with a cap hit of 21.4. It looks like the numbers will be the same for those 3 next year. That's more than 1/3 of the cap room for a roster of 22-23 tied up in 3 players. Before we can even start to look at anything else, we are rather limited in how to spread the remaining cap room around while keeping the roster good enough to be a playoff threat.

Some more salaries for 10/11: Kunitz 3.8, Dupuis 1.4, Talbot 1.05, Rupp .850, Godard .775, Kennedy .850, Adams .550, Letestu .500, Jeffrey .500, Tangradi .738, Tim Wallace .500

Those are the forwards presently under contract next year. Some of those guys will never be effective above a 3rd line, and some have yet to prove how they will fit/compete at the NHL level.

Only 3 D under contract for next year. Orpik 3.75, Goligoski 1.5, Letang 3.5. Need at least 4 bodies to add to that. Not sure if they will retain guys like Lovejoy, Engellend and Chris Lee. If they do, will they be given 1-way deals?

In net, we have Fleury 5.5, Johsnon .600 and Curry .500 next year.

45 million in salary (not sure of the cap hit) for 14 forwards, 3 D and 3 G. And you know not all of Letestu/Tangradi/Jeffrey/Wallace will make the big club to start next year.

That's a lot of roster spots to fill. Not sure what the cap will be set at, but not a lot of flexibility. A trade may be needed not because a player isn't living up to his contract, but rather just to bring some more balance to the cap distribution.

5/14/2010 9:59 AM

pttsbrghkid

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Here is a list of upcoming free agents.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php?team=none&pos=none&summer=none&status=none&type=team

Even if there are players on here the Pens would like to target, how much money can they throw at them with 34.25 tied up in 3 centers, 2 D and a goalie?

And you can pretty much count out the RFAs. Pens need farmhands, can't see them parting with draftpicks to make a FA splash.

5/14/2010 10:02 AM

maskman46

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Quote: Originally Posted By pttsbrghkid on 5/13/2010
to my fellow pens fans, a little bit of perspective:

Better a Pittsburgh Penguins playoff loss than a Kansas City Penguins Cup win.

At least that's how I see it.

could u explain why 87 just parks himself at the side of the net, never creates anything and i really dont whats so special about him . every time datsyuk touches the puck he creates things and hes moving . however he'll never get his due because hes russian . Go canadiens . and yes cammalleri is the best hockey player at this moment in time .

Crosby haters and Ovechkin fans are never going to change their tune. Why bother engaging them? They don't want a productive debate. They want to hurl insults. Hardly worth the time or effort.

5/14/2010 11:40 AM

donaldjl

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Quote: Originally Posted By pttsbrghkid on 5/14/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By donaldjl on 5/14/2010

That's all I've been hearing all day from the "diehard" Pittsburgh dipshit fans.

Here's a breakdown of the past 4 seasons.....06/07....The Pens lose to the Sens in round 1...." That's alright, they're a good young team, they'll be back."
07/08...The Pens lose in the finals..."That's ok, they're a good young team, they'll be back."
08/09...The Pens win the Cup..."Told you they would win it. We have to keep these young superstars together, they're gonna be good for a long time."
09/10...The Pens lose to the Habs in round 2...."Shero should have signed some better support players, Bylsma and the rest of the coaching staff suck, They should trade Malkin, Fleury, etc..."

The fact of the matter is they have more talent down the middle than any team. YOUNG talent. Of course, the league now has a salary cap. The three centers combined for 21.5 million in salary last year with a cap hit of 21.4. It looks like the numbers will be the same for those 3 next year. That's more than 1/3 of the cap room for a roster of 22-23 tied up in 3 players. Before we can even start to look at anything else, we are rather limited in how to spread the remaining cap room around while keeping the roster good enough to be a playoff threat.

Some more salaries for 10/11: Kunitz 3.8, Dupuis 1.4, Talbot 1.05, Rupp .850, Godard .775, Kennedy .850, Adams .550, Letestu .500, Jeffrey .500, Tangradi .738, Tim Wallace .500

Those are the forwards presently under contract next year. Some of those guys will never be effective above a 3rd line, and some have yet to prove how they will fit/compete at the NHL level.

Only 3 D under contract for next year. Orpik 3.75, Goligoski 1.5, Letang 3.5. Need at least 4 bodies to add to that. Not sure if they will retain guys like Lovejoy, Engellend and Chris Lee. If they do, will they be given 1-way deals?

In net, we have Fleury 5.5, Johsnon .600 and Curry .500 next year.

45 million in salary (not sure of the cap hit) for 14 forwards, 3 D and 3 G. And you know not all of Letestu/Tangradi/Jeffrey/Wallace will make the big club to start next year.

That's a lot of roster spots to fill. Not sure what the cap will be set at, but not a lot of flexibility. A trade may be needed not because a player isn't living up to his contract, but rather just to bring some more balance to the cap distribution.

While that's all true, kid, there is still a plus side of knowing what you're getting from the investment....Every team has the salary cap to deal with and needs to find the right players to sign for their system. The Pens have their plan based on Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, Orpik, etc....They could definitely use scoring wingers, but how much would they add by trading Malkin, for example?

If they were to trade Malkin for a 30 goal winger and some prospects, how will they be sure they return will be worth it? Dumping a 100 point scorer that you know for a potential guy is a huge gamble. The salary cap is a hinderance for sure, but eventually every team with 3 or 4 top tier players is going to face the dilemma of having to fill the roster with cheaper guys to hopefully complement the stars....No matter what they do, it could bite them in the ***, but I don't think trading away a sure thing for more cheaper players is the answer.

5/14/2010 12:05 PM

donaldjl

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Quote: Originally Posted By maskman46 on 5/14/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By pttsbrghkid on 5/13/2010

to my fellow pens fans, a little bit of perspective:

Better a Pittsburgh Penguins playoff loss than a Kansas City Penguins Cup win.

At least that's how I see it.

could u explain why 87 just parks himself at the side of the net, never creates anything and i really dont whats so special about him . every time datsyuk touches the puck he creates things and hes moving . however he'll never get his due because hes russian . Go canadiens . and yes cammalleri is the best hockey player at this moment in time .

Crosby haters and Ovechkin fans are never going to change their tune. Why bother engaging them? They don't want a productive debate. They want to hurl insults. Hardly worth the time or effort.

Priceless....You're spot on. Crosby hangs out at the red line waiting for a breakout pass, then he skates to the net and watches for the puck to come to the net. I think he should backcheck more and probably carry the puck more, but he's just too lazy....he can't pass or skate to save his life, hell 30 or 40 of the goals he scored were wrongly credited to him after the puck went in off of the defenseman in front of the net....It sucks that the Pens are stuck with this bum because of his salary. They'll never win anything with him in the lineup.

5/14/2010 12:12 PM

sergei91

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pens suck

5/14/2010 12:27 PM

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