Quote: Originally Posted By gator993 on 12/04/2009I shipped it thinking a call and I won't see the river if the turn blanks.

Also I am ahead of all 1 pair hands for the most part with flush and straight draws and possibly 2 overs.

I hit the diamond and got ******* at. When someone mocks my play at cash tables I get up and take the money out of play to **** them off more

What was Lang holding? Did Dogit come along as well? I don't see how you lay your hand down after that flop...I'd have paid to see the next card as well and then gone from there, although I've been playing way too aggressive of late, but this one seems like a no-brainer.

In retrospect, and reading more carefully, I like gator's shove. I said call at first because I have this habit of thinking every big villain bet I see is an all-in.

Dogit folded before my turn so it was a heads up descision.

I am of the opinion that it's a shove or fold. Calling takes away the option of winning the hand right then. Though a raise like that probably isn't folding. If I call what do I do if the turn is a 9h, do I get paid off if it is a 9d.

He had the set which made me a 3:1 dog but I think it was an easy play but it drew comments not only from the villian but others not in the hand. "push and pray strategy"

My guess would be that the real "experts" would say that move is fine. He forced your hand with the over-raise. If he raises normal-sized, you might call, and then if the diamond hits he can bet you off there.

Regardless, a lot of stuff is in his range there, including a reasonable amount of hands you'd be leading.

A lot of lower stakes players seem to think every time someone catches a card to win, it means they made a poor play. Wrongheaded goofiness.

agree

Didn't think of it that way tm. He raises smaller and I probably just call. I'm still a very agressive player when I hit a flop so I could see myself 3 betting.

I have another hand history I want to share when I go to lunch. Another hand I won but this time I'm not sure if I should go based on a (what turned out to be great) read or if I was mike matasow careless.

Quote: Originally Posted By gator993 on 12/04/2009Dogit folded before my turn so it was a heads up descision.

I am of the opinion that it's a shove or fold. Calling takes away the option of winning the hand right then. Though a raise like that probably isn't folding. If I call what do I do if the turn is a 9h, do I get paid off if it is a 9d.

He had the set which made me a 3:1 dog but I think it was an easy play but it drew comments not only from the villian but others not in the hand. "push and pray strategy

I never listen to the railbirds and other players when I'm playing low-limit or micro-limit tables. If they REALLY knew what they were talking about, why are they playing .25 tables?

You're only worried about a few hands (22, 33, 55, or A4) and even with all of those, you're drawing to the nut flush. Even against KK (unlikely), you have the bonus draw of an ace. I say PUSH, and screw the pundits at the table. That's not "push and pray", you had overcards and a draw to the nuts. I'd tag each one of those players and try to sit with them in the future since they have NFI what they're talking about.

Now I feel better, that was my thought process todd. I thought he could have any hand between 22-99 along with 45 or something like that. Hell he could even be betting a flush draw.

Heres the hand I think I played poorly every step of the way. At first I was thinking I loved my push because the villian has been tight and took a while before he bet almost a pot size bet on the flop which I read as a scared play.

Even though I had him on a scared hand he probably has jj, qq, or aa and many at this level just throws it in.

Stage #1779481935: Holdem No Limit $0.25 - 2009-12-03 22:24:55 (ET)
Table: SAGE DR (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - SHICHOLAS ($29.95 in chips)
Seat 1 - ERSTONE02 ($22.47 in chips)
Seat 2 - JEFFDP ($10.13 in chips)
Seat 3 - CHULAN ($26.75 in chips)
Seat 4 - HOGANTE ($11.76 in chips)
Seat 5 - GATORCHAMP ($21.99 in chips)
ERSTONE02 - Posts small blind $0.10
JEFFDP - Posts big blind $0.25
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to GATORCHAMP [Js Ah]
CHULAN - Raises $1 to $1
HOGANTE - Folds
GATORCHAMP - Calls $1
SHICHOLAS - Raises $2.55 to $2.55
ERSTONE02 - Folds
JEFFDP - Folds
CHULAN - Folds
GATORCHAMP - Calls $1.55
*** FLOP *** [4s Kc Kd]
GATORCHAMP - Checks
SHICHOLAS - Bets $4.55
GATORCHAMP - All-In(Raise) $19.44 to $19.44
SHICHOLAS - Folds
GATORCHAMP - returned ($14.89) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GATORCHAMP - Does not show
GATORCHAMP Collects $14.80 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($15.55) | Rake ($0.75)
Board [4s Kc Kd]
Seat 1: ERSTONE02 (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: JEFFDP (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: CHULAN Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: HOGANTE Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: GATORCHAMP collected Total ($14.80) All-In HI:($14.80) [Does not show]
Seat 6: SHICHOLAS (dealer) Folded on the FLOP



He says he had JJ but there is a fold and show option on UB so im skeptical when someone says there cards instead of showing them.

I don't think you played it too badly. That GATORCHAMP guy is a retard though.

Not a play I would have made, but that says more about me than you. I see nothing wrong with it.

I would have been too worried about KQ, KJ suited or AK or the Pocket 4's

Given that he ramped up to getting 10 bbs in pre-flop, I think we can probably narrow him down to AA, AK, QQ, JJ, maybe TT or AQ suited. You have to assume gator's shove postflop will convince the villain that gator's either trying to end it with AA or he has a K. For that matter, unlike villain's line, gator's line matches up pretty well with 44. Unless he really thinks gator's a monkey, he's gonna fold anything without a K, except maybe AA. Assuming you don't think he reads you as an extreme bully, the shove is a pretty highly profitable move there, I think.

The more I think about it. I think he would pretty much play jj qq aa the same way. Either I have the k or not. I do think with my size stack I reprented the k well. Deeper stacks and this bluff requires a call and the a river bet in most cases.

He said he had jj but I'm thinking I caught him overplaying aq. Or possibly complete air, could of been a squeeze type play knowing preflop action.

I would discount complete air unless I knew the guy was complete trash, given a 4xbb utg raise and a call utg+2 in front of him. Even from the button, I just don't see it without a read.

I buy that he had JJ. Fits his line.