Posted by cccp1014 on 2/5/2019 1:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/5/2019 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 12:31:00 PM (view original):
It's not naive. It's the truth. Some people have to work harder than others, but anyone can do it. Saying they can't is naive.

By the way, I pay $19 for a 10 lb bag of boneless, skinless chicken. That comes out to less than $1/piece. As I said, it's cheap.

It's 100% naive.

Some people can lose weight. Most who do, gain it back plus some. Your body sets your fat cell count for life sometime around puberty. If you're unlucky enough to be overweight as a kid, chances are you can never shake it as an adult because you have a high fat cell count. You can shrink the fat cells with a good diet, but not get rid of them. And the fat cells are programmed to want to refill, so you'll literally struggle against biology for the rest of your life. Someone lucky enough to get through puberty without getting fat has a lower fat cell count. They have an easier time avoiding weight-gain as an adult and, if they do gain weight, have an easier time losing it.

Another factor is gut bacteria. There was a obese woman with some sort of nasty infection. She had to take a hard-core antibiotic to deal with the infection and it wiped out her gut bacteria. The doctors transplanted gut bacteria from her daughter (who was not obese) and the woman lost all the weight without changing her diet.

You're giving rare examples. 99% of the people are overweight due to poor diet, lack of exercise and lack of will power. I was super skinny as a kid so I had to work extra hard at the gym to put on weight. I could have stayed skinny. Conversely if I were obese I would work extra hard at dropping LBs by running, biking, sports, weights and a better diet. I don't care if you want to be fat and unhealthy but you should not paying the same for healthcare as I am. You pay more for life insurance. No one is arguing about that. Why?

The fact that that is a rare example isn't the point. The point is we don't fully (or maybe even partially) understand how gut bacteria works in relation to weight gain. Two people with the same diet can have significantly different BMIs due to their gut bacteria composition.

Maybe or maybe one has to work harder to be healthier. You play baseball. You may be a natural curve ball hitter but I have to work at it. I don't just say, hell I cannot hit that pitch I quit.

But if you do work and work at trying to get better at hitting curve balls and you still suck at it, are you some sort of moral failure? Or do we accept that some people just aren't able to do certain things?

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 1:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/5/2019 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 12:31:00 PM (view original):
It's not naive. It's the truth. Some people have to work harder than others, but anyone can do it. Saying they can't is naive.

By the way, I pay $19 for a 10 lb bag of boneless, skinless chicken. That comes out to less than $1/piece. As I said, it's cheap.

It's 100% naive.

Some people can lose weight. Most who do, gain it back plus some. Your body sets your fat cell count for life sometime around puberty. If you're unlucky enough to be overweight as a kid, chances are you can never shake it as an adult because you have a high fat cell count. You can shrink the fat cells with a good diet, but not get rid of them. And the fat cells are programmed to want to refill, so you'll literally struggle against biology for the rest of your life. Someone lucky enough to get through puberty without getting fat has a lower fat cell count. They have an easier time avoiding weight-gain as an adult and, if they do gain weight, have an easier time losing it.

Another factor is gut bacteria. There was a obese woman with some sort of nasty infection. She had to take a hard-core antibiotic to deal with the infection and it wiped out her gut bacteria. The doctors transplanted gut bacteria from her daughter (who was not obese) and the woman lost all the weight without changing her diet.

You're giving rare examples. 99% of the people are overweight due to poor diet, lack of exercise and lack of will power. I was super skinny as a kid so I had to work extra hard at the gym to put on weight. I could have stayed skinny. Conversely if I were obese I would work extra hard at dropping LBs by running, biking, sports, weights and a better diet. I don't care if you want to be fat and unhealthy but you should not paying the same for healthcare as I am. You pay more for life insurance. No one is arguing about that. Why?

The fact that that is a rare example isn't the point. The point is we don't fully (or maybe even partially) understand how gut bacteria works in relation to weight gain. Two people with the same diet can have significantly different BMIs due to their gut bacteria composition.

Again, you keep saying "they ate the same diet." Regardless of the cause, some people are prone to put on weight easier than others. People have to tailor their diet to their needs. Everyone can avoid getting fat or lose weight.

There are people who are on medically supervised liquid diets who can't get their BMIs into healthy ranges.

Posted by tangplay on 2/5/2019 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I think feeding your kid almost exclusively junk food is child abuse.

His.dad was a felon and druggie. He was a good kid.

Those are always very tragic situations. It sounds like the food he was eating is the least of his worries. Some people should be sterilized. I hope you were there for him through the rough times.

Posted by tangplay on 2/5/2019 1:25:00 PM (view original):
Strikeout and CCCP, I challenge you to a race. We will all put, say, 1000 on who wins. The catch is, you two have to run the race backwards, hopping on one foot. You might say, "well, that's unfair" and I would say that if you lose, it's your fault because you tecnically were capable of winning no matter what.

I don't understand what you're trying to prove by that point?

What's the best way to hit a curveball? Hit the fastball!

Posted by tangplay on 2/5/2019 1:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 1:24:00 PM (view original):
I understand both sides of that argument. If I am unhealthy, I am costing the insurance company more money than a healthy person. Simple economics says that the insurance company should charge me more. But health insurance is an unique market. If I am type I diabetic, I need prescriptions. I need doctor's visits. I did nothing wrong to put myself in that situation. I'm just not sure I am okay with people not being able to afford life-saving drugs because of an illness that is of no fault of their own.

Like I have said, obesity is the fat person's fault. It can be avoided. It costs $0 to exercise and you can eat nutritiously for relatively cheap, but there are a lot of disabilities in which you can do everything right and still get sick.

The point is that i'm okay paying a higher premium so that others don't have to.

I am also uncomfortable with the idea of "the more you cost, the more we charge". Health insurance is not auto insurance.

That is how life insurance works too. Why are you uncomfortable with that? Why should you subsidize me for my poor diet and lack of exercise?

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 1:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/5/2019 1:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/5/2019 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2019 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 12:31:00 PM (view original):
It's not naive. It's the truth. Some people have to work harder than others, but anyone can do it. Saying they can't is naive.

By the way, I pay $19 for a 10 lb bag of boneless, skinless chicken. That comes out to less than $1/piece. As I said, it's cheap.

It's 100% naive.

Some people can lose weight. Most who do, gain it back plus some. Your body sets your fat cell count for life sometime around puberty. If you're unlucky enough to be overweight as a kid, chances are you can never shake it as an adult because you have a high fat cell count. You can shrink the fat cells with a good diet, but not get rid of them. And the fat cells are programmed to want to refill, so you'll literally struggle against biology for the rest of your life. Someone lucky enough to get through puberty without getting fat has a lower fat cell count. They have an easier time avoiding weight-gain as an adult and, if they do gain weight, have an easier time losing it.

Another factor is gut bacteria. There was a obese woman with some sort of nasty infection. She had to take a hard-core antibiotic to deal with the infection and it wiped out her gut bacteria. The doctors transplanted gut bacteria from her daughter (who was not obese) and the woman lost all the weight without changing her diet.

You're giving rare examples. 99% of the people are overweight due to poor diet, lack of exercise and lack of will power. I was super skinny as a kid so I had to work extra hard at the gym to put on weight. I could have stayed skinny. Conversely if I were obese I would work extra hard at dropping LBs by running, biking, sports, weights and a better diet. I don't care if you want to be fat and unhealthy but you should not paying the same for healthcare as I am. You pay more for life insurance. No one is arguing about that. Why?

The fact that that is a rare example isn't the point. The point is we don't fully (or maybe even partially) understand how gut bacteria works in relation to weight gain. Two people with the same diet can have significantly different BMIs due to their gut bacteria composition.

Maybe or maybe one has to work harder to be healthier. You play baseball. You may be a natural curve ball hitter but I have to work at it. I don't just say, hell I cannot hit that pitch I quit.

But if you do work and work at trying to get better at hitting curve balls and you still suck at it, are you some sort of moral failure? Or do we accept that some people just aren't able to do certain things?

We accept it but in this case I am a worse hitter than you so I bat lower in the order or I am on the bench and you play more. We both still have insurance but because I am a higher risk you should not have to subsidize me. I should pay say $100 more per month or whatever the actuaries say.

life insurance is not a right.

Health insurance isn't either. I'm not even sure that I would say medical care is a right. We have decided as a society that the humane and ethical thing to do is to provide people with medical care. It's the correct thing to do, but I wouldn't say that people have a "right" to it. I would still say it's a privilege.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 1:34:00 PM (view original):
Not at all. We are talking about two totally different situations. They aren't even close. Take a step back and think about it. You tried to use the same argument with wealth inequality. It just doesn't work. I would suggest rethinking a better argument.

lol I am bad at coming up with new analogies.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 1:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/5/2019 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/5/2019 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I think feeding your kid almost exclusively junk food is child abuse.

His.dad was a felon and druggie. He was a good kid.

Those are always very tragic situations. It sounds like the food he was eating is the least of his worries. Some people should be sterilized. I hope you were there for him through the rough times.

He had his head on straight, figured out pretty quick that his dad was a dumbass.

Lol, yeah I know. I remember that you stole that one from the video you posted a while back. Nothing wrong with that. In the coaching world, nothing is original. Everything is stolen from someone else.

It's always heartwarming when you see a kid come from a crappy situation and make it. My adopted son had a biological who was a gang-member and drug dealer. His mom was a piece of crap. He married a girl whose dad wasn't anywhere to be found and her mom was a druggy, prostitute. My son is a sheriff's deputy and his wife is finishing up nursing school. Those are two kids who were destined to fail and yet they overcame their environment.

Why is health insurance more of a right than food?

Health insurance is (partially) dependent on lifestyle - If you're a smoker, you pay more and you SHOULD. If you're obese, you pay more and you SHOULD. BL's idiotic gut bacteria argument aside, having an unhealthy lifestyle is a CHOICE. Every choice has tradeoffs.

If you choose to smoke, you're choosing to buy heavily taxed cigarettes and pay more for health insurance and life insurance.

If you're obese, you can still improve your lifestyle and get into a healthy range, but it might TAKE WORK. If you choose not to do that work, you're choosing to pay more for health insurance (diabetes is a BIG add-on cost) and life insurance.

Choices.